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lilithsansracine
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 Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 12:44 am Post subject: Kafka |
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Anyone else a fan here?
I'm mildly obsessed. I think he is an INTP too.
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Lilith sans Racine
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uuaq
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Location: wandering dark hallways, alone and tormented.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 1:51 am Post subject: |
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[raises hand]
You're referring to the author, or the film? Franz Kafka's literary works are some of the very little fiction I enjoy rereading. Steven Soderbergh's film (1991) with Jeremy Irons has always been one of my favorites, though it flopped theatrically. I had to buy a PAL version of the DVD to possess it, and then an external enclosure for an old region-free optical drive just so I could occasionally watch it. See? Proof of my fanaticism!
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lilithsansracine
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| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 8:10 am Post subject: |
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I have been trying to find the movie for a while now, but haven't as of yet.
It would be interesting to see theatrical, or rather cinematographic interpretations of Kafka's work, since I like to evaluate that stuff a lot.
Have you heard of Wedding Preparations in the Country? It's an incomplete work, but it's still pretty interesting, especially when juxtaposed against the motifs of The Metamorphosis. There is certainly the element of escapism involved, yet it's portrayed in a weird sort of happy light.
The reason that Kafka is probably one of my favorite authors is that he has this unique array of motifs and themes, which are quite close to me. I'm a huge fan of transcending the so-called archetypal treatment of things in literature (at one point it all becomes a bit clichéd to me), and Kafka tends to do that brilliantly.
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Lilith sans Racine
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Zephr
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| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:00 am Post subject: |
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Sorry, I don't like being negative, but I wanted to contribute my opinion here anyway. I guess most of the things I say are kinda negative though... Ah well. Here it goes anyway.
I'm afraid I don't like Kafka very much. Firstly, from everything I've heard his writing doesn't survive translation very well, and I don't understand enough German to read something like Kafka. It always bothers me to know how much I'm missing because of an insufficient translation.
I also really don't like the overall tone of his writing, it's just generally unpleasant. And finally I refuse to like things just because they differ from the norm. I love a well done bit of oddness, that's the sort of thing I like best really. But I make it a point to not like things just because they're counter to expectations, and I try not to dislike things just because they're popular or cliched. I don't want pop culture and cliches to have control over me, positive or negative.
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Annabel_Lee
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| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:34 am Post subject: |
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I find Kafka to be tremendously inspiring. I feel like he pins the concept of pain for me. I haven't yet encountered another author who combines the masochistic, surrealistic and ridiculously absurd facets of pain as well as he does.
I think the one of the greatest hurdles for a lot of the people reading Kafka's works is getting past the absolute horror of the situations he defines.
I'm an admirer of his shorter works. I feel that's where he packs his works with shock, chaos and a despairing sense of meaning. He's quite a dramatic writer. The Metamorphosis, In the Penal Colony, The Judgment and The Stoker are all favourites.
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mikkle
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| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:48 am Post subject: |
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| Annabel_Lee wrote: | I find Kafka to be tremendously inspiring. I feel like he pins the concept of pain for me. I haven't yet encountered another author who combines the masochistic, surrealistic and ridiculously absurd facets of pain as well as he does.
I think the one of the greatest hurdles for a lot of the people reading Kafka's works is getting past the absolute horror of the situations he defines.
I'm an admirer of his shorter works. I feel that's where he packs his works with shock, chaos and a despairing sense of meaning. He's quite a dramatic writer. The Metamorphosis, In the Penal Colony, The Judgment and The Stoker are all favourites. |
Kafka has certainly had an effect on my way of looking at things......for better or for worse.  |
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Zephr
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| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:50 am Post subject: |
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Heh, I have quite enough pain in my life without reading books about it. I prefer my fiction to be better than reality, not worse.
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nazcapilot
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| Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 1:03 am Post subject: |
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A friend of mine recently turned me on to him, but I couldn't read Metamorphisis fast enough for her so she took it away from me before I could finish. 
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lilithsansracine
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 3:05 am Post subject: |
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| Annabel_Lee wrote: |
I think the one of the greatest hurdles for a lot of the people reading Kafka's works is getting past the absolute horror of the situations he defines.
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I like how he portrays the "horror" in somewhat of a detached manner. I also prefer not to categorize the sum of the feelings and sensations experienced by certain characters as "horror" or "sorrow" or whatever. I like to read thinking that it's a totally new type of experience, and then put the sum of the sensations and feelings in light of my being and experiences to see how I would interpret it all. Deconstructionism is a way that I often tend to look at literature.
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Lilith sans Racine
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"I accept chaos. I don't know whether it accepts me." - Arthur Rimbaud, I'm Not There |
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Annabel_Lee
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| Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:59 am Post subject: |
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| lilithsansracine wrote: | | Annabel_Lee wrote: |
I think the one of the greatest hurdles for a lot of the people reading Kafka's works is getting past the absolute horror of the situations he defines.
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I like how he portrays the "horror" in somewhat of a detached manner. I also prefer not to categorize the sum of the feelings and sensations experienced by certain characters as "horror" or "sorrow" or whatever. I like to read thinking that it's a totally new type of experience, and then put the sum of the sensations and feelings in light of my being and experiences to see how I would interpret it all. Deconstructionism is a way that I often tend to look at literature. |
Interesting, when Derrida coined the term "Deconstructionism" as a critical tool for analysis, he suggested that we detach ourselves from all the contextual baggage of the text and read just what is in front of us. It's useful, it's objective. But I think to a great extent, it's unattainable.
As humans, everything we perceive inevitably becomes a part of our web of metonymic connections. Reading is no different. In your case, the moment you "put the sum of the sensations and feelings in light of [your] being and experiences to see how [you] would interpret it all", you seek to contextualize in light of past experience--and possibly activate a series of associations which would invoke terms like "sorrow" or "horror", or even something as neutral and ambiguous as "ambivalence".
Our approaches may differ, but the mechanism still reaches the same end. It's one of the joys of being human. 
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mikkle
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| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:05 am Post subject: |
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| lilithsansracine wrote: | | I like how he portrays the "horror" in somewhat of a detached manner. |
I like that too.
I try to do that in my own work, but it seems like a lot of people don't get it.
| lilithsansracine wrote: | | I also prefer not to categorize the sum of the feelings and sensations experienced by certain characters as "horror" or "sorrow" or whatever. I like to read thinking that it's a totally new type of experience, and then put the sum of the sensations and feelings in light of my being and experiences to see how I would interpret it all. Deconstructionism is a way that I often tend to look at literature. |
Well put, Lilith. 
I do that too.
Now, if only I could get people to look at my work that way.......  |
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lilithsansracine
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 8:35 am Post subject: |
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| Annabel_Lee wrote: | | lilithsansracine wrote: | | Annabel_Lee wrote: |
I think the one of the greatest hurdles for a lot of the people reading Kafka's works is getting past the absolute horror of the situations he defines.
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I like how he portrays the "horror" in somewhat of a detached manner. I also prefer not to categorize the sum of the feelings and sensations experienced by certain characters as "horror" or "sorrow" or whatever. I like to read thinking that it's a totally new type of experience, and then put the sum of the sensations and feelings in light of my being and experiences to see how I would interpret it all. Deconstructionism is a way that I often tend to look at literature. |
Interesting, when Derrida coined the term "Deconstructionism" as a critical tool for analysis, he suggested that we detach ourselves from all the contextual baggage of the text and read just what is in front of us. It's useful, it's objective. But I think to a great extent, it's unattainable.
As humans, everything we perceive inevitably becomes a part of our web of metonymic connections. Reading is no different. In your case, the moment you "put the sum of the sensations and feelings in light of [your] being and experiences to see how [you] would interpret it all", you seek to contextualize in light of past experience--and possibly activate a series of associations which would invoke terms like "sorrow" or "horror", or even something as neutral and ambiguous as "ambivalence".
Our approaches may differ, but the mechanism still reaches the same end. It's one of the joys of being human. |
While I realize in a way we can never truly be objective in any way, what I mean to stress is the importance of the individual experience. This is where my trouble with archetypes and traditions come in as well (not just in the area of literary criticism). Sure, in a way we are all bound for the same human drama to surround us, but what I am seeking here is to see the human drama for ourselves, with our own perspective rather than having Greek mythology and the Epic of Gilgamesh, or even the stories of struggle and hardship of our families define what the epitome of human tragedy and triumph mean. This might be considered futile or redundant but I am apparently a fan of reinventing the wheel when it comes to certain things. A little shaking up of paradigms never did us any harm.
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Lilith sans Racine
INTP, RCUEI, Enneagram 7/5, sx/sp/so, Facilitator
"I accept chaos. I don't know whether it accepts me." - Arthur Rimbaud, I'm Not There |
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Ayato
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