| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Isra
Advanced Member
Joined: 29 Mar 2008
Posts: 1086
Location: Skagit County, WA
|
 Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:24 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
The best way I've found to start accomplishing things is to start small. For example, if I set out with the idea of "I'm going to clean the whole house," I often feel overwhelmed. However, if I start out with "I'm going to do the dishes." I complete that task, then move on to cleaning the counters, then sweeping the floor, etc. One thing leads to another, and eventually I have cleaned the whole house.
It's just an example, of course, but completing small goals on the path to a larger one can give a sense of accomplishment, which often leads to a sense of self worth.
| bourgeois manque wrote: | | Now, what gets me feeling better when I'm down is thinking about my plans and goals; even if shit currently sucks, I have something to strive for. Plus it gives my existence some sort of point. |
Basically, I think you're right, it just may be easier for him to start with small, short-term plans rather than larger ones.
Personally, I think life is pointless in a general sense, but my own life is as important as I choose to make it.
_________________
(Fi)(Ne)ly tuned ISTP
"In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about life: it goes on."
-Robert Frost |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
lilithsansracine
Advanced Member
Joined: 17 Jul 2008
Posts: 466
Location: Toronto, Canada
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 5:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
Help him see the awesomeness of life in little things. Even the facts that he gathers can help build a fabric of reality that is encouraging growth.
_________________
Lilith sans Racine
INTP, RCUEI, Enneagram 7/5, sx/sp/so, Facilitator
"I accept chaos. I don't know whether it accepts me." - Arthur Rimbaud, I'm Not There |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KNL
Advanced Member
Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 1454
Location: Rochester, NY, USA
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | Heard joke once: Man goes to doctor. Says hes depressed. Says life seems harsh and cruel. Says he feels all alone in a threatening world where what lies ahead is vague and uncertain. Doctor says, "Treatment is simple. Great clow Pagliacci is in town tonight. Go and see him. That should pick you up." Man bursts into tears. Says, "but Doctor, I am Pagliacci." |
Oh, Watchmen.
| Zephr wrote: | | I'd say that as far as I can tell thinking things are pointless from time to time is just part of being an INTP. |
Exactly what I was thinking.
Three courses of action come to mind. One, take his sorry ass out to see something he likes (i.e. sports, movies, stand-up, whatever). Two, get him doing something he's good at. Three, and my personal recommendation, agree with him. At least for me, nothing gets me changing my outlook on things quicker than someone agreeing with me. So, just say something like, "Yeah, life is pretty much pointless. Nothing you do will ever make a difference in the long run. Hell, it probably won't even matter by next week. You should probably just give up trying anything and everything because, not only does it not matter, no one cares anyway." And when you say this, tone is important. You shouldn't sound completely serious, but you shouldn't sound like you're joking either. Just say it in a matter-of-fact way, nonchalant. Perhaps then quickly follow it up with a, "So, doing anything this weekend?" That just might work.
Or you could give him head. 
_________________
I'm your type. 
"Oh, crap, she's got feelings."
"I'd rather be a smartass than a dumbass."
"What can I say, I'm intellectually promiscuous." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bourgeois manque
Advanced Member
Joined: 05 Nov 2008
Posts: 141
Location: space alone
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Thrusthamster wrote: | But he probably won't want to do it though if I have the right idea about him.
|
haha, yeaaaaah. That pretty much sums it up. I shall force him though!! He just doesn't believe it's worth the effort. It is thought, it is!!
| Romana wrote: | | I would suggest something that is real, tangible, practical. |
| lilithsansracine wrote: | Help him see the awesomeness of life in little things. Even the facts that he gathers can help build a fabric of reality that is encouraging growth.
|
Trying!
| Troll Emperor of Doom wrote: | | leave the boy alone with the defeatism.... you guys... lay off. He needs more knives, not a pick me up.... unless, as I said before, it comes from a woman. |
hahah, yeah, that'd be his point of view.
KNL: I've actually tried that before, haha! It only works if I'm obviously getting frustrated. Then he says "Okay okay, I'm actually making it sound worse than it really is." On the other hand, if I'm nonchalant, he just nonchalantly agrees. ALL HIS FRIENDS ARE NEGATIVE NANCIES, he's used to it ;)
Everyone's input was helpful! I think the hard part is constantly and actively counteracting old thoughts with the new thoughts. All of these ways of thinking make sense, it just takes time to convince one's natural inclinations and feelings. Funny thing is, he actually does not come off as feeling too bothered most of the time; he intellectualizes it and states his views on life in a nonchalant, matter of fact tone. Kind of detached, like analyzing a movie. And then he distracts himself and avoids anything that may give him anxiety. And hey, maybe that's okay if it leaves him feeling alright, but the problem is he's also an idealist, so living a mere mediocre life probably does not cut it as alright. What I think needs to happen is that he needs to find a balance where he takes these suggestions to enrich his life, while at the same time lowering expectations. Again, that takes a lot of work actively changing one's thoughts and behaviors! Unfortunately, work is what he just LOVES to avoid, and his defeatist mentally questions if that hard work would ever even get him anywhere.
Actually, Zephr, you guys give me similar vibes in the way you talk. You both are nice, calm, and chill. The only difference is that you seem truly calm, while I feel like he's actually really anxious deep deep underneath and covers it up, exerting a pseudo calm. Of course, I could be just talking bullshit because I don't even know you, Zephr haha.
Anyway, yeah, I just wanted to make sure I was not forcing him to do something that he probably is not capable of, or would just actually make things worse, or would be expecting him to change too much into a totally different person (by focusing too much on planning and goals). I wanted him to improve his life in the way that is best suited for him. You know, the best possible self type thing. Baby steps, I guess, baby steps, as Isra said.
I could be taking it all too seriously. He is strange in that he never takes things seriously at all, but at the same time...he does. Don't know how to explain!
_________________
INFJ/1w2/Mercy?
"Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Zephr
Advanced Member
Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 1051
Location: Tacoma
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 1:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
You know, that kinda got me thinking. Is it possible that people tend to have an emotion or state that they sort of gravitate toward? That could explain a lot, it does seem that a lot of people tend to be angry people or nervous people or happy people or things of that nature.
I'd say that calm is a good way to describe me, actually. I do tend to have a hard time maintaining any strong emotion. I certainly have a full range of emotion, but usually they wear off in minutes, and even strong emotions tend to be gone within a few hours.
It could explain a lot if other people had a different default state, but I might just be blowing smoke out my ass...
_________________
r|C|UaI |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bourgeois manque
Advanced Member
Joined: 05 Nov 2008
Posts: 141
Location: space alone
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 4:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Zephr wrote: | You know, that kinda got me thinking. Is it possible that people tend to have an emotion or state that they sort of gravitate toward? That could explain a lot, it does seem that a lot of people tend to be angry people or nervous people or happy people or things of that nature.
I'd say that calm is a good way to describe me, actually. I do tend to have a hard time maintaining any strong emotion. I certainly have a full range of emotion, but usually they wear off in minutes, and even strong emotions tend to be gone within a few hours.
It could explain a lot if other people had a different default state, but I might just be blowing smoke out my ass... |
Oh yeah! I'd say so. For example, there's temperament, which includes mood and intensity:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperament
Also, people have varying degrees of neurotransmitters and receptors in their brains. Perhaps you have a lot of serotonin, contributing to your calm persona.
_________________
INFJ/1w2/Mercy?
"Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Zephr
Advanced Member
Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 1051
Location: Tacoma
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 6:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
| bourgeois manque wrote: | | Zephr wrote: | You know, that kinda got me thinking. Is it possible that people tend to have an emotion or state that they sort of gravitate toward? That could explain a lot, it does seem that a lot of people tend to be angry people or nervous people or happy people or things of that nature.
I'd say that calm is a good way to describe me, actually. I do tend to have a hard time maintaining any strong emotion. I certainly have a full range of emotion, but usually they wear off in minutes, and even strong emotions tend to be gone within a few hours.
It could explain a lot if other people had a different default state, but I might just be blowing smoke out my ass... |
Oh yeah! I'd say so. For example, there's temperament, which includes mood and intensity:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperament
Also, people have varying degrees of neurotransmitters and receptors in their brains. Perhaps you have a lot of serotonin, contributing to your calm persona. |
Hehe. I ended my post with "I might just be blowing smoke out my ass..." and then you began yours with "Oh yeah! I'd say so." For some reason I find that hilarious.
I'm curious if anyone else has default emotion that they find themselves returning to a lot. I'd like to know if that's really what it is.
Meanwhile I must look up serotonin, I cannot for the life of me remember what it is that it actually does.
_________________
r|C|UaI |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Troll Emperor of Doom
Advanced Member
Joined: 14 Dec 2008
Posts: 481
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bourgeois manque
Advanced Member
Joined: 05 Nov 2008
Posts: 141
Location: space alone
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 10:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Zephr wrote: | | bourgeois manque wrote: | | Zephr wrote: | You know, that kinda got me thinking. Is it possible that people tend to have an emotion or state that they sort of gravitate toward? That could explain a lot, it does seem that a lot of people tend to be angry people or nervous people or happy people or things of that nature.
I'd say that calm is a good way to describe me, actually. I do tend to have a hard time maintaining any strong emotion. I certainly have a full range of emotion, but usually they wear off in minutes, and even strong emotions tend to be gone within a few hours.
It could explain a lot if other people had a different default state, but I might just be blowing smoke out my ass... |
Oh yeah! I'd say so. For example, there's temperament, which includes mood and intensity:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperament
Also, people have varying degrees of neurotransmitters and receptors in their brains. Perhaps you have a lot of serotonin, contributing to your calm persona. |
Hehe. I ended my post with "I might just be blowing smoke out my ass..." and then you began yours with "Oh yeah! I'd say so." For some reason I find that hilarious.
I'm curious if anyone else has default emotion that they find themselves returning to a lot. I'd like to know if that's really what it is.
Meanwhile I must look up serotonin, I cannot for the life of me remember what it is that it actually does. |
Haha, well, when you pointed that out, I loled as well.
Anyway, on the topic of neurotransmitters, I find this interesting:
http://www.douglaslabs.com/pdf/nutrinews/The%20Edge%20Effect%20NN%20(Spring-05).pdf
This guy lists four different temperaments and says each temperament is dominant in a certain neurotransmitter. He then lists symptoms of neurotransmitter deficiencies and how one can correct the deficiencies with lifestyle changes, diet changes, or supplement intake. I'm not sure how accurate the whole dominant neurotransmitter idea is, but I'm sure there's something you can take from learning about how different neurotransmitters (or lack thereof) affect your body.
Also, a little less scientific, but still kind of fun:
http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/articles/NArtTina.asp
Enneagram types with correlating neurotransmitter levels
mmm..I love biopsychology.
_________________
INFJ/1w2/Mercy?
"Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Zephr
Advanced Member
Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 1051
Location: Tacoma
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 4:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| bourgeois manque wrote: | Haha, well, when you pointed that out, I loled as well.
Anyway, on the topic of neurotransmitters, I find this interesting:
http://www.douglaslabs.com/pdf/nutrinews/The%20Edge%20Effect%20NN%20(Spring-05).pdf
This guy lists four different temperaments and says each temperament is dominant in a certain neurotransmitter. He then lists symptoms of neurotransmitter deficiencies and how one can correct the deficiencies with lifestyle changes, diet changes, or supplement intake. I'm not sure how accurate the whole dominant neurotransmitter idea is, but I'm sure there's something you can take from learning about how different neurotransmitters (or lack thereof) affect your body.
Also, a little less scientific, but still kind of fun:
http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/articles/NArtTina.asp
Enneagram types with correlating neurotransmitter levels
mmm..I love biopsychology. |
That first link says that NTs are supposed to have high levels of dopamine, but then reading on I seem to have all the symptoms of low levels of dopamine.
Hmm... the Enneagram also seems to have me tending toward low levels of dopamine. Great, now I have to look up dopamine too.
_________________
r|C|UaI |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Annabel_Lee
Advanced Member
Joined: 20 Jul 2008
Posts: 1051
Location: A kingdom by the sea
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 4:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Zephr wrote: | You know, that kinda got me thinking. Is it possible that people tend to have an emotion or state that they sort of gravitate toward? That could explain a lot, it does seem that a lot of people tend to be angry people or nervous people or happy people or things of that nature.
I'd say that calm is a good way to describe me, actually. I do tend to have a hard time maintaining any strong emotion. I certainly have a full range of emotion, but usually they wear off in minutes, and even strong emotions tend to be gone within a few hours. |
Ah, I quite relate to that. Especially about the temporality of strong emotions and the full range bit. I mean, I often have these times where an emotion is so specific in its expression that it can't quite be categorized (and I don't just mean emotional states of ambivalence), and when it is evoked again in a different context, it feels a little bit like a déjà vu. Kind of like, you've hit this emotional state before but you don't quite remember what came with it. It isn't the same with thought threads for me. I can usually trace back the contexts with those pretty quickly, but hmm, with states-of-being, not so much.
So, emotional déjà vues anyone?
_________________
"There's man all over for you, blaming on his boots the faults of his feet" -Samuel Beckett |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Troll Emperor of Doom
Advanced Member
Joined: 14 Dec 2008
Posts: 481
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 4:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
I tend to act indifferently to my emotional state in terms of intentions, but continiously reinforcing long term goals and systematic burning of certain bridges in the name of certain things I suppose are synonymous to values as to who and what I am and should be.
My family has a tendency to emotions, and I have never known what to do with mine, for they are clearly built up on overdrive. I think I differ from most INTJs in this effect, I have a deep reservoir of emotion, and experience it, but my instincts are not rooted in supplementing the motives that naturally arise from them (or even expressing it), but rather in more logical-identity formulas developed from a understanding of deposition and long term goals.... I have literally gone insane and this was the one thing that brought me back, a stronger overdrive to cancel out chemical motivators from my decision making process. Usually I am more of a symbiont of them when I am lazy, or fanatically determined- emotions are a tool and indicator light, but I am telling you, I can feel harder than most Fs, just as I can be more intuitive than most intuitive thinkers. There is a scope of effects a person operates under, and am certain it is harder on me than a good many do to a complicated family genetic history to keep it initially under control growing up, but at the same time and seeing it pays potentially high dividends in terms of acquisition and productivity.
_________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYKzIMyXzpU&feature=related
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8161212442641245440&ei=J_1GSejUDIaYrQLb47XhDA&q=dune&hl=en |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KNL
Advanced Member
Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 1454
Location: Rochester, NY, USA
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 8:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Zephr wrote: | | I'd say that calm is a good way to describe me, actually. I do tend to have a hard time maintaining any strong emotion. I certainly have a full range of emotion, but usually they wear off in minutes, and even strong emotions tend to be gone within a few hours. |
This happens with me too. I often find it difficult to start and finish things, I'm thinking it's partly because I just don't feel that strongly about much of anything. That happen to you?
_________________
I'm your type.
"Oh, crap, she's got feelings."
"I'd rather be a smartass than a dumbass."
"What can I say, I'm intellectually promiscuous." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Zephr
Advanced Member
Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 1051
Location: Tacoma
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 1:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| KNL wrote: | | Zephr wrote: | | I'd say that calm is a good way to describe me, actually. I do tend to have a hard time maintaining any strong emotion. I certainly have a full range of emotion, but usually they wear off in minutes, and even strong emotions tend to be gone within a few hours. |
This happens with me too. I often find it difficult to start and finish things, I'm thinking it's partly because I just don't feel that strongly about much of anything. That happen to you? |
Oh yeah, all the time. If I can't finish something in one short flurry of activity I probably never will. I really have a hard time caring about things once they stop being interesting, which happens very fast.
Fortunately I've gotten pretty good at doing things all at once.
_________________
r|C|UaI |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BatmanHumpsRobin
Member
Joined: 29 Mar 2009
Posts: 20
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Avoid felons, liars, and annoying people. Schedule everything. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
test
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
similarminds.com
Log in
Register
