similarminds.com

[lightsun]

Does anyone buy into the Gaia principle.

This principle is that the entire planet earth is like one living organism, and that

everything is interrelated.

That's why if we hurt one part of the planet on the other side, we are directly

affecting ourselves here.

P.S. Gaia, in the ancient greek mythology was the first "god", and from her

sprang all the other titans, gods, & mortals.

She could also be equated with "mother nature".
.
_________________
Apollo LightSun Peaceweaver
I want PEACE!
I want to UNDERSTAND the nature
of distortions, distractions, &
illusions that keep us from the
TRUTH!
I WANT TO BE HAPPY!
INFP, cognitive style MERCY!
eneeagram #9!!
Zodiac "cancer"

[Zephr]

That's actually a pretty interesting question. I don't think the Earth is really alive in the way most people mean the word alive, but I do believe that everything is interconnected. Maybe not always in the most obvious ways, and it is possible to be a selfish jerk without killing the world, but if you think about it, the Earth (or at least its biosphere) meets most of the definitions of life. The big one that's missing right now is reproduction, and humanity could fix that any time we wanted.
_________________
r|C|UaI

[The Troll Emperor of Doom]

I used to play that game from Max until I got supremely bored with it, even talked once with the author.

No, I do not think that if I pee in a toilet here, liquid spurts out of a outhouse in China to balance it out. So thus, not a balance of relativity. I can uderstand causual effects resulting from depositions, but your going to have in many cases dead ends and cyclic absorbers that will dampen any long term abnormalities.... like two waves coalescing will increase a wave, but the end result is just a tad bit more erosion on the beach in the extreme long term 99999999 100000000.

This being said, I do not limit my view of depositional relativity to earth alone. The moon has rocks originating from earth, we have asteroids here from space, stuff is always entering our atmosphere, we have solar winds from our su as well as large galactic currents that most evidence points to have caused massive extinctions, and let's not forget lunar and sun initiated tidal forces and techtonic plates.

Gaia is a restrictive outlook... and it takes the human element out of nature and forces too much on destructive conservatism that mandates the awkward and unhealthy push for maintaining and predominating failed or failing lifeforms to inhabit a enviroment via artificial means. God forbid the dinosaurs die out.
_________________


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYKzIMyXzpU&feature=related
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8161212442641245440&ei=J_1GSejUDIaYrQLb47XhDA&q=dune&hl=en

[lightsun]

You sound like you have high intelligence. You have made some points.
I will of course process it & add it to the whole. As a side note and generalizing.
The thinkers may or may not see all black & white & right and wrong. I do not
know, and I would like feedback.
As for feelers, we may sometimes follow our feeling over proof sometime.
(1) As for me I again honestly do not know if Gaia is anywhere near the truth!
(2) I will listen to facts and perhaps even doubters.
(3) Even though I sort of scientifically validate the as for now logic of Gaia not
being true,
(4) I feel a sort of mystical connection to this metaphysical way of looking at
things.
(5) bottom line I don't KNOW, you do not really know, and science does not
know.
There are many mysteries in the universe. Who knows what will be true in
500 yrs.
_________________
Apollo LightSun Peaceweaver
I want PEACE!
I want to UNDERSTAND the nature
of distortions, distractions, &
illusions that keep us from the
TRUTH!
I WANT TO BE HAPPY!
INFP, cognitive style MERCY!
eneeagram #9!!
Zodiac "cancer"

[C.Beck]

Ted said everything i wanted to say - eloquently i might add.
_________________
I Need To Prognosticate
5-9 r|C|uaI Scorpio Facilitator
"The sun to which my eyes could not adjust"
http://cognitionexpo.21.forumer.com/index.php

[lightsun]

Yes, The Troll Emperor of Doom, sounds intelligent, and has a command
of the english language.
_________________
Apollo LightSun Peaceweaver
I want PEACE!
I want to UNDERSTAND the nature
of distortions, distractions, &
illusions that keep us from the
TRUTH!
I WANT TO BE HAPPY!
INFP, cognitive style MERCY!
eneeagram #9!!
Zodiac "cancer"

[Zephr]

[The Troll Emperor of Doom]

There is counter theories to Gaia.

Here is one of them, transceding Gaia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noosphere

Learned about this from cultist/freshmen from washington state university protesting in DC a while ago.

They won't let you play videogames or masturbate. It goes matrix deep. Seems like a harmless ecology-psychology theory at first.... but. Really, I need one or the other. You can't take masturbation AND video games from me at the same time. I can bet they all voted for Obama to the last.
_________________


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYKzIMyXzpU&feature=related
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8161212442641245440&ei=J_1GSejUDIaYrQLb47XhDA&q=dune&hl=en

[Zephr]

Hah, shows what you know. Wazzu is deep in the heart of Republican territory. It's only a few miles from Idaho. Not many people voting for Obama there, I'm afraid.

Anyway, the whole Gaia thing is basically a wacko crackpot theory that accidentally made a good point. The fact that there are other wacko crackpot theories out there competing with it means less than nothing.
_________________
r|C|UaI

[lightsun]

Okay
I guess i'll make more of my environmental views here.
I express I am into animal rights and children's rights
I believe it is a huge blind spot in our consciousness.
I believe it is the next part of our human evolution of thought, principals,
morals, values, and rights!
I also quite frankly detect anger from Troll & Zephr.
I respect non judgmental, non labeling, non pejorative speaking.
I will try to live up to my value.
In future postings I may express some of my animal rights issues.
If I get carried away, I hope someone will help ground me.
_________________
Apollo LightSun Peaceweaver
I want PEACE!
I want to UNDERSTAND the nature
of distortions, distractions, &
illusions that keep us from the
TRUTH!
I WANT TO BE HAPPY!
INFP, cognitive style MERCY!
eneeagram #9!!
Zodiac "cancer"

[The Troll Emperor of Doom]

There never was and never could be real anger between zephr and me. We are both NTs, ex military and blue collar. My stepfather was/is in the line of work he is in.

However, the university by default is in liberal territory.... being a west coast university that launched on a missionary quest to try to convert me and others into their cause several thousands of miles away in the nations political capital in the month of january when it was cold. Reminds me of Romana's strangest compliment when the military guys tell her she is a pretty good speaker despite coming from a university. There is the rift where they voluntarily jump off off of rational thinking by accepting point blank new prejudices. I think it has something to do with the fact your in a university to learn via absorption of a finite set of material rather than learning how to think critically from a large, more diverse set of knowledge encoded and spread via multiple sources. The basic idea behind majors and moving off into the workforce forces this reduction of mental capacity as one specializes in the localized complexity over navigation of fluxing information.

Military of course has that rift too along much the same lines, but they are more honest about the consequences and reality of that rift. It changes you, your thinking and behavior and how you tackle things, hopefully for the better. Sometimes a marine goes psycho, sometimes someone is ostracized on incorrect or dubious information, sometimes a bad war is perpetuated further by the joint esprite of the boots on the ground. However, I think the universities have proven to be radically more destructive in consequence to the denial of this rift in subsituting the sreamlining of values and economizing a limited set of beliefs to substitute as your own values and judgments.

It takes a really fucked up mind to think up a atomic bomb, or daisy cutters as a acceptable alternative. The militarizes of the world might use them, but they are not sitting there, privates and colonels rechecking each other's math and looking over the engineering and logistical projections on building a time table FOR A NUKE. No, you gotta go to a liberal university to find a mind that demented and torn away from the world they grew up in. GI Joe ain't doing that shit. U gotta find a closet unabombed who likes the style of doing it in white coats for that.

And all universities are libneral by default, if they weren't, no one would attend, I use liberal in the sense as willingness to accept values not accepted by the status quo. You can apprentice and field pr trade if learning was needed just to learn our new job.... no, we use liberal universities for indoctrination, whatever it' political leanings- be it 1930 pro spartan nazis universities or 2009 earth is melting, subsidize my orgasm... wherever policies.

People of one rift hate hearing that of another rift, be it cult, military, university. There is some compatibility and work on intercommunication and cross discipline research, but in the end, it just points to how strung the rift really is. Each one I've studied have some interesting and unique ways of scrutinizing and processing information, and some ugly biases. None so ugly and blood chilling as the modern day manhattan projects. I'm telling you, scientist need to be a legitimate target of war as a enemy combatant, and further more, when a bad regime ends and someone has to hand, a few of them need to be up there next to their dear leader who would of been clueless to some of the nastiest they helped make. Especially in terms of mass destruction.

George Bush water boarding? Fuck that, lab coats have done so much worst to humanity.
_________________


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYKzIMyXzpU&feature=related
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8161212442641245440&ei=J_1GSejUDIaYrQLb47XhDA&q=dune&hl=en

[Zephr]

I certainly have been venting some of my frustrations with life into this board lately, but TED isn't the cause of any of them. I'm not even really an angry person, it's just easy to use strong words on the internet when I don't have to see the emotional repercussions.

Actually, that's an interesting response, TED. I guess in a way all universities do have to be kind of liberal. WSU is over in the eastern half of the state though. That Bush supporting rural desert that's exactly what everyone thinks Washington isn't. So I guess the people you ran into kind of were liberal hippy losers, but they were still liberal hippy losers that probably voted for McCain.

As for blaming scientist for the negative applications of knowledge, that seems silly to me. Would you rather we stuck our heads in the sand and never figured out how these kinds of things would work? Hopefully nobody's stupid enough to use them, but somebody will find a way to make them someday. I'm just glad it's people who are honest about what they're doing and not particularly interested in using them. This way we have a chance to figure out what to do about them before we experience them first hand.
_________________
r|C|UaI

[lightsun]

TED maybe it is not your intention but you sound angry, despondent, and
futility and hopelessness.
I am intuitive which has STRENGTHS and weaknesses.
I am a feeler which has great strengths as well as blind spots.
I equate us, all 6,700,000,000 of us as facets of a giant crystal or diamond.
You take your pick. Each of us sees only through this tiny lens, this sliver of
reality. None of us can see the "whole" or big picture, or can adequately
make use of this "EYE OF GOD TOTAL CRYSTAL LENS".
This is why your message was so vexing.
Neither liberal or conservative is "right".
Both have blind spots. When one is angry, myself included, one is
communicating from a "blind spot". We need to make use of all parts
and angles of the lens to adequately SOLVE and fix problems.
When we play a blame game, we are shutting off part of the lens, slivers
or angles of the lens that NEED to be part of the solution.
_________________
Apollo LightSun Peaceweaver
I want PEACE!
I want to UNDERSTAND the nature
of distortions, distractions, &
illusions that keep us from the
TRUTH!
I WANT TO BE HAPPY!
INFP, cognitive style MERCY!
eneeagram #9!!
Zodiac "cancer"

[Stuckasfook]

I wouldn't blame scientists solely though. It is also always the leaders and decision makers in the political sphere's faults too, those people putting guns into our honorably hired murderers of mostly colored persons.
Whether you are an unthinking mass of slave like soldiers or an unthinkable massive bomb, the sentiment is at least the same. But, though, since the soldiers do try their damnedest to kill with their low level of intellectual activity and technological know how, the brass will never lose their love for them, not even for all the super scientists of the world. The leaders will forgive the soldiers for their incompitence, and will let them beg for forgiveness by becoming an expendable army of one. It really is a lovely relationship.
One can at least understand why a military man, oblivious to the fact that he is a murderer too, can so easily become jealous of and be derisive towards these lab coated goons. The ability of scientists to follow orders and damn humanity with destruction will always surpass the soldier, who is bounded in his ability to destroy by his limited scientific awareness, which if otherwise would have him wearing the lab coat, low end technological use, proximity and the smallest area of effect.
I wouldn't count either one as exactly more guilty or less guilty, since it is probably only in terms of their being used and lied too. This guilt is the same, the soldier and the scientist are mutually assured that they are doing what is right for 'god country and democracy bla bla do your duty citizen soldier'. The guilt differs at potential though. The scientist is far more guilty of having greater potential as a state owned conscience. The scientist is usually more guilty of greater potential even when not state owned, though not always.

And I don't think that the collection of scientists and technology makers, in the realm of white lab coats and westernized universities, has quite reached the high blood mark achieved by the collective long lineage of conventional forces. Probably not yet at least; though the tables could be turned, the lab coats have great requisites for the largest death yield currently, if it were put into that use. The future is at best a deduction though, and not a sense experience.
Unless you wanted to blame all the makers of technology, which reaches back to the first hardened points on sticks and arrowheads. Then the soldiers definitely haven't done much at all, ever more a part of the machine towards destruction, instead of a conscious participant. I wouldn't say this though.

Of course higher education is liberal. The very act of conservatism is to keep things the way they are or were. The people that want the things the way they are, are often the most influential, powerful and rich. Citizens in the lowest strata learning about unfair power relations in democracy is never healthy for the empowered. Education, and more to the point, equal education or education based on intellectual potential, is detrimental to defenders of grand inequality. At the same time, the other group that supports conservative attitudes has drawn from those who weren't rich or powerful, the middle and lower classes: this interest is in wanting to be of the same status as the wealthy and influential. It is also born of indoctrination, much the same as some liberal, and some middle grounded opinions. Also, conservatism has always played upon traditional idealogy and symbology to appear as if from the moral highgroud, through the use of religion, monarchy, 'pro'-life, regarding novelty and the unknown, change itself, as a bad omen. It is interesting that in the leftist revolutions in the past few centuries, these ideals and symbols have been discarded or disfigured.

[lightsun]

I am impressed "Stuckasfook"!!
You spoke with PASSION, and were not carried away with anger.
Anger dulles our senses.
You have given much food for thought.
I will reply later in much more depth. The depth that your response almost
requires.
This is what the forum is all about to me.
Stimulating thought, & discussion.
_________________
Apollo LightSun Peaceweaver
I want PEACE!
I want to UNDERSTAND the nature
of distortions, distractions, &
illusions that keep us from the
TRUTH!
I WANT TO BE HAPPY!
INFP, cognitive style MERCY!
eneeagram #9!!
Zodiac "cancer"