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Romana
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Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 2939
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 Posted: Sun May 03, 2009 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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| nonentropic wrote: | | zillah wrote: | | Don't you find though that even though you might have quite a strong subjective sense of these things, it's not easy to boil them down so far as to put them into words? |
yes, it is tough...but, i've been working on this it seems for my entire life and so i have gotten better at it...i.e. putting my thoughts, feelings, beliefs, values, understandings and such into words. in a sense, i've been internally compelled to do this. just trying to be myself as well as possible ya know. |
Same goes for me as well. I can usually put my thoughts into words, the question remains as to how understandable they are to others. This is one thing I enjoy about the forum: there is the possibility of feedback, to show me where I have been misunderstood, or insufficiently coherent.
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Romana
INTJ
“The awareness of our own weaknesses allows us to view the weaknesses of others with immense compassion and to appreciate the value of their offerings.” ~ Logospilgrim |
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lightsun
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Joined: 20 Apr 2009
Posts: 841
Location: USA, Planet Gaia
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| Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 5:27 am Post subject: INTP |
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Believe it or not, I've a writing block.
I can seem to free associate and write like a torrent. I also seem to be
connected "in the here and now" I can give speeches as well.
What I have an intense problem is organizing my thoughts in
structured thesis type papers.
It feels so artificial.
It feels like am lying and am not true to myself! Do any other INFP's
have trouble with organization and structure, to a dysfunctional
level?
It is maddening. It is embarrassing, and I get very angry with myself.
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Apollo LightSun Peaceweaver
I want PEACE!
I want to UNDERSTAND the nature
of distortions, distractions, &
illusions that keep us from the
TRUTH!
I WANT TO BE HAPPY!
INFP, cognitive style MERCY!
eneeagram #9!!
Zodiac "cancer" |
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Romana
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Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 2939
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| Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 10:54 am Post subject: Re: INTP |
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| lightsun wrote: | Do any other INFP's
have trouble with organization and structure, to a dysfunctional
level?
It is maddening. It is embarrassing, and I get very angry with myself. |
I am not an INFP, and do not generally have trouble organizing and structuring my written expression. When I do have writer's block, however, or just the sense that my writing is not coming out the way I want, I imagine that I am explaining the idea to another person sitting next to me. Thinking of it that way almost always cures the problem
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Romana
INTJ
“The awareness of our own weaknesses allows us to view the weaknesses of others with immense compassion and to appreciate the value of their offerings.” ~ Logospilgrim |
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HatchBack176
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Joined: 27 Apr 2007
Posts: 1262
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Is MBTI really so ambiguous to where someone thinks they can pass off Extraverted Feeling for Introverted Feeling? |
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Stuckasfook
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Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 544
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| Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Are there really ENTPs? |
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Mescaline
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Joined: 28 Dec 2007
Posts: 386
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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I have trouble formulating my thoughts into a standard that would be considered acceptable. That's why I dislike essays and writing reports, I get especially stressed when forced under a time limit to write an essay. I feel like I'm being fake in that I'm compromising my thoughts by squashing them into a mold that it should not fit into.
There are ENTPs, and they are Gods. |
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lightsun
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Joined: 20 Apr 2009
Posts: 841
Location: USA, Planet Gaia
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| Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 4:01 pm Post subject: INTP |
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Mescaline, you have echoed both my thoughts and feelings on the
subject.
I don't expect others to understand. I do not understand. I am
generalizing, as an INFP I am fully in the moment.
I can write what I FEEL, FEEL, but it hard for me to write in a
circumscribed and "ARTIFICIAL" manner. In other words I feel
like i'm lying, because I can't feel what it is i'm writing.
I am writing other people's opinions and facts, and I am taken
out of the moment, into a sense the past.
I'll deal with it. I will make modifications.
I will overcome!
_________________
Apollo LightSun Peaceweaver
I want PEACE!
I want to UNDERSTAND the nature
of distortions, distractions, &
illusions that keep us from the
TRUTH!
I WANT TO BE HAPPY!
INFP, cognitive style MERCY!
eneeagram #9!!
Zodiac "cancer" |
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Fathergia
Advanced Member
Joined: 11 Feb 2008
Posts: 1322
Location: Texas Ft.Worth
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| Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 7:02 pm Post subject: Re: INTP |
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| lightsun wrote: | Believe it or not, I've a writing block.
I can seem to free associate and write like a torrent. I also seem to be
connected "in the here and now" I can give speeches as well.
What I have an intense problem is organizing my thoughts in
structured thesis type papers.
It feels so artificial.
It feels like am lying and am not true to myself! Do any other INFP's
have trouble with organization and structure, to a dysfunctional
level?
It is maddening. It is embarrassing, and I get very angry with myself. |
Is a thesis paper a paper where you state your'e thesis and then proceed to write supporting your thesis will also recognizing and destroying the anti-thesis?
I KICK ASS AT THOSE!
You see i have no problem with feeling "artifical" I have no problem with "not being true to myself" If it is what is required for my success then it is what I will do. In fact I will do a lot of things TO MYSELF to achieve success. I'm not going to be successful if I have to cut throats.
Also INTP and ENTP are probably the most fun type to be around!
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School is over, the fun begins
I'm the dish that ran away with the spoon. |
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Romana
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Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 2939
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| Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 9:36 pm Post subject: Re: INTP |
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| Fathergia wrote: | Is a thesis paper a paper where you state your'e thesis and then proceed to write supporting your thesis will also recognizing and destroying the anti-thesis?
I KICK ASS AT THOSE!
You see i have no problem with feeling "artifical" I have no problem with "not being true to myself" If it is what is required for my success then it is what I will do. In fact I will do a lot of things TO MYSELF to achieve success. I'm not going to be successful if I have to cut throats.
Also INTP and ENTP are probably the most fun type to be around! |
Yes, a thesis is an assertion, or position, which is then (hopefully) supported by logic and evidence. The process often entails addressing the antithesis, or possible counterarguments to the thesis, though this will vary with topic and audience.
I have always been good at this myself. To me, though, the only way not to be true to myself in the process would be not to do my best. I rarely see the content as a reflection on me, particularly since oftentimes writing an essay to support a thesis is just an exercise in exploring a topic or idea. I can just as easily write in support of a thesis I disagree with as one with which I agree. Feelings, meaning emotions, usually have little place in such an essay, although value statements often do.
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Romana
INTJ
“The awareness of our own weaknesses allows us to view the weaknesses of others with immense compassion and to appreciate the value of their offerings.” ~ Logospilgrim |
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C.Beck
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Joined: 23 Jun 2007
Posts: 2964
Location: Ontario
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| Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 6:26 am Post subject: |
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i always write my essays under awesome time constraints. It makes it more fun.
I feel i strike a balance between inspiration and the acceptable minimum. I enjoy the process of writing an arguable paper more than exploring the content of it. When my own ideas and an assigned subject align in interest, i write my best papers. When i write a paper without the interest or relevance to my current thinking i tend to take longer and write with a lot less alacrity. But that should be true of most anyone to some degree.
I wrote a bazillion essays this year in uni. What i learned was that the standard hamburger essay is exactly what the TAs and profs want from us. I experimented, knowingly damaging my marks to some degree, just to make sure and to see what kind of response i would get from my academic guides. I wasn't impressed. What is an essay? an argument. Why does an argument have to take that form? surely there are better ways to represent a point of view, structurally.
Alas, i am a student. I am not in a position of power. It's good to keep our lessons, their benefits and flaws, in perspective. They can tell me what to know but not what to think about it.
| Fathergia wrote: | | Also INTP and ENTP are probably the most fun type to be around! |
True.
Also, what Romana said is correct, but "thesis" is often used with the connotation of a very large significant argument that you make to finish your undergrad degree or higher. It often involves research and or lots fo sources. What Romana described could also be called an essay.
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I Need To Prognosticate
5-9 r|C|uaI Scorpio Facilitator
"The sun to which my eyes could not adjust"
http://cognitionexpo.21.forumer.com/index.php |
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Romana
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Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 2939
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| Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 8:06 am Post subject: |
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| C.Beck wrote: | | iWhen my own ideas and an assigned subject align in interest, i write my best papers. When i write a paper without the interest or relevance to my current thinking i tend to take longer and write with a lot less alacrity. But that should be true of most anyone to some degree. |
When I was in school and was required to write on a subject in which I had little interest, I sometimes amused myself and kept it interesting by turning the subject inside out somehow, coming at it from an entirely unexpected angle. Fortunately, my instructors took this in stride and my marks did not suffer overmuch. Some of my cleverest essays were written this way.
As for the word "thesis", the broader definition is simply an arguable position. The document one writes to obtain a university degree is a specialized case. Consider, by contrast, Martin Luther's "95 theses". These were not 95 graduation documents, but rather 95 assertions concerning the Catholic church.
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Romana
INTJ
“The awareness of our own weaknesses allows us to view the weaknesses of others with immense compassion and to appreciate the value of their offerings.” ~ Logospilgrim |
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C.Beck
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Joined: 23 Jun 2007
Posts: 2964
Location: Ontario
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| Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 8:11 am Post subject: |
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| Romana wrote: | | C.Beck wrote: | | iWhen my own ideas and an assigned subject align in interest, i write my best papers. When i write a paper without the interest or relevance to my current thinking i tend to take longer and write with a lot less alacrity. But that should be true of most anyone to some degree. |
When I was in school and was required to write on a subject in which I had little interest, I sometimes amused myself and kept it interesting by turning the subject inside out somehow, coming at it from an entirely unexpected angle. Fortunately, my instructors took this in stride and my marks did not suffer overmuch. Some of my cleverest essays were written this way.
As for the word "thesis", the broader definition is simply an arguable position. The document one writes to obtain a university degree is a specialized case. Consider, by contrast, Martin Luther's "95 theses". These were not 95 graduation documents, but rather 95 assertions concerning the Catholic church. |
Oh, i definitely do that. it can only stretch so far with some subject matter though.
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I Need To Prognosticate
5-9 r|C|uaI Scorpio Facilitator
"The sun to which my eyes could not adjust"
http://cognitionexpo.21.forumer.com/index.php |
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Stuckasfook
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Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 544
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| Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 8:12 am Post subject: |
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As an INTP did Jung say I have to do something for the ENTP gods?
Can I eventually become a god if I talk too much? |
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Annabel_Lee
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Joined: 20 Jul 2008
Posts: 1051
Location: A kingdom by the sea
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| Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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| C.Beck wrote: | i always write my essays under awesome time constraints. It makes it more fun.
I feel i strike a balance between inspiration and the acceptable minimum. I enjoy the process of writing an arguable paper more than exploring the content of it. When my own ideas and an assigned subject align in interest, i write my best papers. When i write a paper without the interest or relevance to my current thinking i tend to take longer and write with a lot less alacrity. But that should be true of most anyone to some degree. |
Agreed. I usually try to find compelling threads even in cases where my interests don't align. That way the process of writing gets incredibly tolerable and interesting. And sometimes I come out with a new-found appreciation for subjects I didn't have an initial interest in, which is a pretty epic feeling.
| C.Beck wrote: | I wrote a bazillion essays this year in uni. What i learned was that the standard hamburger essay is exactly what the TAs and profs want from us. I experimented, knowingly damaging my marks to some degree, just to make sure and to see what kind of response i would get from my academic guides. I wasn't impressed. What is an essay? an argument. Why does an argument have to take that form? surely there are better ways to represent a point of view, structurally.
Alas, i am a student. I am not in a position of power. It's good to keep our lessons, their benefits and flaws, in perspective. They can tell me what to know but not what to think about it. |
Whoa seriously? I can't say the same for my courses.
Sometimes I feel like we don't even go to the same university 
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C.Beck
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Joined: 23 Jun 2007
Posts: 2964
Location: Ontario
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| Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 8:28 am Post subject: |
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Well what was the least conventional thing you ventured this year annabelly? (hahaha)
one of my TA's didn't like that i had my thesis statement in my second paragraph. I had some things to lay out before i got to it, and the rest of what i wanted to say was distinct enough to warrant its own paragraph! bah. disdain. disdain.
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I Need To Prognosticate
5-9 r|C|uaI Scorpio Facilitator
"The sun to which my eyes could not adjust"
http://cognitionexpo.21.forumer.com/index.php |
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