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Zephr
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Joined: 12 Jul 2006
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Location: Tacoma
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 Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 8:54 pm Post subject: Re: Gaia principle |
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| RadicalDreamer wrote: | | Zephr wrote: |
You know, that's really not scary at all. Like most resources that people like to say that we're "running out" of, there's far more than we really need out there, it's just that we're getting to the point where it's getting harder for us to find what we need laying around waiting and ready for us.
Sure, we're going to have to start being smarter about this kind of stuff soon, and that will impact people lives, but it's not like we're going to run out of water, and we can purify most of it. It just takes time and money. It won't be much fun when we have to start doing that, but it's not like it's going to be the end of the world either.
And if there is some God out there that plans this kind of stuff, they must have a sick sense of humor, because this is just another situation were if civilization as we know it is stressed to the breaking point the United States is in one of the best positions in the world. That seems to happen a lot. |
The whole Southern US is expected to have severe water shortages because of population increases, especially the South-west. Desalination is expensive and then there is the issue of the future energy requirements vs production levels. |
Oh sure, places like L.A. and Texas are going to be short on water soon. That's what happens when you put some of the largest cities in the world in the middle of deserts.
The US as a whole though has more water than it will need for quite a while. There's just the problem of getting the water to the people or moving the people to the water.
Most countries are far worse off. China for instance has less renewable fresh water than the US with more than triple the population. Plus they're trying to build up the kinds of industries that are using most of the water in the US.
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RadicalDreamer
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Joined: 03 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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Globally, more than one billion people have no access to safe, clean drinking water, and more than two billion lack access to adequate sanitation, according to the U.N. At current trends, by 2025 two-thirds of the world’s population will not have access to sufficient clean water. Even in a developed country like the U.S., many states are expecting water shortages in the next decade, similar to the one faced by Georgia."
http://www.ajc.com/opinion/content/opinion/stories/2009/05/07/bolzeed_0507.html
Do humans have a carrying capacity limit?
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Isra
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Joined: 29 Mar 2008
Posts: 1086
Location: Skagit County, WA
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| Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 3:13 am Post subject: |
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Lightsun, the god I would identify most would probably be Athena. Not so much the power and war stuff, but she's quick to anger, and quick to remorse, gets surprised that people are hurt when she doesn't mean to hurt their feelings, and she's generally willing to help those who she feels deserve it, and she gets things done when they need doing. As far as gods that I have any sort of knowledge of, she's rather practical and a good advisor, and combined with her flaws probably represents me best.
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lightsun
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Joined: 20 Apr 2009
Posts: 841
Location: USA, Planet Gaia
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| Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 3:27 am Post subject: gaia principle |
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Thanks Isra.
I've always had a love of mythology.
Plus it tells a lot about a person on who they identify with.
Zephyr, you did not pick a god/goddess. It is all choice, of
course, as well as interest level.
I always enjoy hearing from both of you.
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I want PEACE!
I want to UNDERSTAND the nature
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Stuckasfook
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Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 544
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| Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 4:21 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | PS: Stuckasfook said that his god is Cow and you called him intelligent. I said that my god is God, and you decide that I answered your question wrong? Hmm. |
This is another reason why religion should only be taught around the same, somewhat arbitrary age that drugs become legal.
Why aren't any of the peaceable and tolerant religious folks here speaking against Kyle's obvious disdain for critical thinking, imagination and truth? How can we all be wasting time discussing so much about nothing every day here, but when someone who is supposed to represent your Christian religion begins flying off the handle about ultimate truths and begins leaving other sides, choices and facets of existence in an unimportant secondary place, no one adresses him about it?
I mean, not only does his view completely illustrate a nonthinking stance, but it clearly illuminates the dangers of indoctrinating younglings, or just plain ole ignorant folk, about concepts of life-altering and earth-altering calibur. It is a dangerous combination by itself, but when it is combined with bitterness, hatred and jealousy, the population becomes as explosive as revolutionary communism or fascism, both of which it coincidentally parallels. Why is everyone saying 'thankyous' and 'great jobs' to this obviously stinking pile of dogmatic dog crap?
Kyle, you seem to point out that my imaginative idea of a possible god is unintelligent. Can you pinpoint the idiocy? Hopefully you can, it is just as easy as specifying where the hypocrisy, inconsistency and contradiction exists in all gods. This much is obvious. It is a nihilistic norm to be able to deconstruct, deny and falsify. But could you step out of those desctructive, armaggedon-hoping shoes and find anything intelligent, artistic or creative about the cow-god image I painted? Or any other religion besides your violent unilateral one?
The idea of a cow god predates the Christians by many thousands of years. Your Christian religion is a strange mix between the paganisms and earlier monothestic traditions which Christianity mimicked in many ways. Which are all also descended from earlier mysticisms and religions. They've got books that tell about it. The Book is hardly the only one to read that contains the knowledge of our race and peoples.
My small idea of a god was indeed beautiful in its intelligence and word play. Your anger and your angry concept of God will not defeat this. The fact that you can not see proves all the more how incredibly biased you wish to be in light of so many intelligent thoughts here on this forum, and here on this earth. That cow was beautiful. Notice how it didn't threaten naive humans with hell, pillars of salt, meteors or otherwise? The just and loving Trinity would be hard pressed to fill this last parameter.
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Thanks Lightsun. You've got good eyes for reading, even when you aren't necessarily completely what is written down. That is an excellent attribute.
I see how you say I deal with negativity and the harsher parts of existence. But I am not of the kind that would pretend those things away. And if I want them away, then I at least have to admit they are there and understand them. What I do next, either falling into looping despair or beginning a discourse and string of deeds to fulfill, mend and create is another matter. But this much is true: there are nasty things and they must be discussed and adressed for the most effective effacing.
I assure you, I like rainbows, pets and good wine just as much as you. Maybe more. |
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RadicalDreamer
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Joined: 03 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 7:21 am Post subject: |
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| Stuckasfook wrote: | | Quote: | | PS: Stuckasfook said that his god is Cow and you called him intelligent. I said that my god is God, and you decide that I answered your question wrong? Hmm. |
Why aren't any of the peaceable and tolerant religious folks here speaking against Kyle's obvious disdain for critical thinking, imagination and truth? How can we all be wasting time discussing so much about nothing every day here, but when someone who is supposed to represent your Christian religion begins flying off the handle about ultimate truths and begins leaving other sides, choices and facets of existence in an unimportant secondary place, no one adresses him about it? |
I don't think there are any other Christians here. I'm not the right person to get into a metaphysical argument like that with someone. 
I used to see Christianity as evil. Then I realized it was the people who were evil. Books don't kill. People do. People use religion/beliefs to justify their own characters. They use anything that is convenient. A person's true level of character development is revealed in how they use their religion/philosophy. Whatever that maybe. It explains the Armageddon Lobby and Libertarian Christians who stand up against it. There is something else going on here.
I like cows, except for the ones with the horns that follow you. They scare me. I'm afraid of being impaled.
| Quote: | | Why is everyone saying 'thankyous' and 'great jobs' to this obviously stinking pile of dogmatic dog crap? |
I was thanking him for answering me. Gaia principle was the original question in the thread. I had no idea how Christianity related to it.
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Zephr
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Joined: 12 Jul 2006
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Location: Tacoma
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| Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 10:51 am Post subject: |
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Well, I suppose I should try to answer you Lightsun. I don't really think there are any gods that I particularly identify with. The closest would probably be Athena, and I like the Greek gods in general, but I don't really think I could honestly say that I identify with any god.
I suppose I kind of like the idea of Gaia as a term for earth as a life form. I like it because it doesn't require anything mystical though. Earth as it really is does meet most of the requirements for life, and Gaia is as good a name for that life as any. I guess you would "worship" Gaia by being an effective part of the whole, but this isn't something I really try to practice. Just an idea I kind of like. I don't really think that fits the term "god" though.
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Romana
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Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 2939
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| Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Stuckasfook wrote: | | Why aren't any of the peaceable and tolerant religious folks here speaking against Kyle's obvious disdain for critical thinking, imagination and truth? |
I would, but I have gone through this already with Kyle on another thread, hence my link on the previous page. I agree with you. In fact, this was an all-round insightful and well-stated post. Amen!
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“The awareness of our own weaknesses allows us to view the weaknesses of others with immense compassion and to appreciate the value of their offerings.” ~ Logospilgrim |
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Kyle
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| Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Stuckasfook wrote: | | Why aren't any of the peaceable and tolerant religious folks here speaking against Kyle's obvious disdain for critical thinking, imagination and truth? |
Because the same thing could be said about you.
If you replaced my name with your name,
it would be like asking, "Why isn't anyone helping me?"
Christians are fun to talk to, because Jesus Christ and God are already in their vocabulary.
Or not talk to.. Sometimes you just look at each other and smile.
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Stuckasfook
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Joined: 18 Jan 2009
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| Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Kyle wrote: | | Stuckasfook wrote: | | Why aren't any of the peaceable and tolerant religious folks here speaking against Kyle's obvious disdain for critical thinking, imagination and truth? |
Because the same thing could be said about you.
If you replaced my name with your name,
it would be like asking, "Why isn't anyone helping me?"
Christians are fun to talk to, because Jesus Christ and God are already in their vocabulary.
Or not talk to.. Sometimes you just look at each other and smile. |
| Quote: | | it would be like asking, "Why isn't anyone helping me?" |
Do not push me where I do not stand.
I can help myself, my lengthy response and your lengthless response are rock hard and stolid evidence of that.
I wasn't asking for help. I was asking why religious folks that entertain their perhaps novel, perhaps contradictory views(as I also hold novel and contradictory views) are not running to the defense of an idealogy and philosophy of peace and tolerance practiced by Jesus; and why they aren't trying to dismantle your hatred before its scalding luminesce mistakingly superimposes itself over their peaceful and active, purpose driven beliefs. This has been the long line of inherited thinking that too many atheists, mere anti-Christians and agnostics cling to: all Christianity and all Christians are evil and stupid all the time everywhere; it is easy to see, just look at how Mother Teresa was absolutely blown out of proportion and made to be a saint when she was very very far from it, the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, contemporary enforced ignorance in the areas of safe sex and abortion, Denialism, etc. Confusing radical elements, and proponents of doublethinks and nonthinking, with those other elements that really try to just live their lives in a nieghborly, golden rule kind of way is just as absurd as anything else. Far from supporting indoctrinating humans at young ages, where philosophical and scientific reasoning has yet to be fully matured, I am at the same time not for outlawing the religions. And in my opinion, we wouldn't even deserve the 'free' and 'safe' world if something like religious censorship were sponsered and carried out. There are way too many believers that aren't obsessed with hellfire and Christianizing the painful objectivity that is necessary for sane politics. Democracy and freedom are a continual process kind of program, and their strength isn't derived from bans and prohibitions; its strength is drawn from education, reason, people who are willing to work through these problems day in and day out and folks that don't want their neighbors imprisoned, even if they don't agree with their victimless activity and thought.
Still, if someone were to attack me for being illogical or not practical, I would have no qualms with attacking the very foundations of their beliefs, which they toad around as ultimate truth.
I don't want to destroy Christianity. I want to destroy destructive behavior, and if it is Christian then so be it, and if it is atheist then so be it also. The contradiction is intended. And don't think that I always feel ecstatic about such convictions. I really wish there weren't people trying to isolate and confine individuals and ideas behind bars of steel or pages of brimstone. But they really do exist. Eliminating their presence is a necessity in my opinion, so I can be happy and my friends can be happy. It just really isn't fucking fair that you don't let children think critically and it isn't fucking fair that you want to say everyone is absolutely wrong when they haven't necessarily been saying they are absolutely right.
You are very far removed from any kind of heterogenous society and lifestyle if you think you have to be a Christian to smile at someone. A great Christian would smile, wave and talk kindly to any person, as would a great Human in general.
And, specifically for the smiling part, humans have been doing that forever, males and females do it to on another for obvious reasons.
That last bit was good though. I will have to kick my ass every so often and remind myself to smile and nod at everyone. I'll try to survive that, even if not many people return the acknowledgements.
Wtf kyle? You really believe that you have the only answer to all our troubles? |
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Kyle
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Posts: 2210
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| Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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Shared feeling
~~~
To answer your question... Yes.
Look, how do you feel about the word religious?
Do you have a positive or a negative idea of the word?
~~
How about the name George? Are you reminded of our last president?
Do you tend to like people named George, or not?
How do you think it affects a conversation/relationship if someone mentions their friend George?
~~
How about trees?
If someone has a negative association with trees, then show them a more positive side to trees, improving the collective feeling about trees.
~~
How about trouble?
If your idea of trouble is worse than my idea of trouble, then you will freak out if I say "trouble".. Trouble can mean be anything from the biggest catastrophe, to the slightest disturbance..
~~
How about catastrophe?
It could be a car wreck, or a card tower falling over...
~~
How about the word death? Do you fight to avoid death?
Or do you welcome death, because you associate it with a kick ass video game?
You should strive for a positive interpretation, regardless of what is being said.
~~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRLIpHK4NUU
http://www.lyricsmania.com/lyrics/hatebreed_lyrics_2319/supremacy_lyrics_31788/destroy_everything_lyrics_344319.html
Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me.
Love more loving
Destruction more constructive, less destructive
Death less deadly
etc.
Death's deadliness, dead.
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lightsun
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Joined: 20 Apr 2009
Posts: 841
Location: USA, Planet Gaia
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| Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 4:13 pm Post subject: gaia principle |
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Science evolves as new discoveries are made.
One of my problems with religion is that it does not evolve.
Look at our constitution. It has amendments to change with the
times and both GROW and evolve.
I have nothing against reading religion and getting insight.
But it is only one source of many.
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Apollo LightSun Peaceweaver
I want PEACE!
I want to UNDERSTAND the nature
of distortions, distractions, &
illusions that keep us from the
TRUTH!
I WANT TO BE HAPPY!
INFP, cognitive style MERCY!
eneeagram #9!!
Zodiac "cancer" |
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Kyle
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Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 2210
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| Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 4:44 pm Post subject: Re: gaia principle |
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| lightsun wrote: | Science evolves as new discoveries are made.
One of my problems with religion is that it does not evolve.
Look at our constitution. It has amendments to change with the
times and both GROW and evolve.
I have nothing against reading religion and getting insight.
But it is only one source of many. |
The laws of physics are the laws of physics.
We understand the laws of physics better with new discoveries.
The physical rules of the universe do not evolve.
Our understanding does.
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Stuckasfook
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Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 544
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| Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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Still clamouring for making religion only available at about the same age as use of mind altering chemicals and relationship altering sexuality.
This is serious you guys. People that don't want to give way on their fundamental beliefs are dangerous when coupled with the more novel and more efficacious means that humanity has made to destroy.
Nukes and machine guns with fundamentalist Christians on one of the world and fundamentalist Muslims on the other?
Not good you guys.. not good at all. I think we may be coming to a point where we have to stop letting religious folk from making their irrationality a way of life for all of humanity. And anyone else that would seek to make their irrational subjective views into some kind of a farce of objectivity.
@ Kyle
| Quote: | The physical rules of the universe do not evolve.
Our understanding does. |
Yes, that is what lightsun said. Lightsun said that science evolves. |
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Romana
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Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 2939
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| Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 1:13 am Post subject: |
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| Stuckasfook wrote: | Still clamouring for making religion only available at about the same age as use of mind altering chemicals and relationship altering sexuality.
This is serious you guys. People that don't want to give way on their fundamental beliefs are dangerous when coupled with the more novel and more efficacious means that humanity has made to destroy.
Nukes and machine guns with fundamentalist Christians on one of the world and fundamentalist Muslims on the other?
| Quote: | The physical rules of the universe do not evolve.
Our understanding does. |
Yes, that is what lightsun said. Lightsun said that science evolves. |
Both the laws of physics and whatever divine force actually exists are likely eternal and unchanging, though as a mere human, I have little by way of evidence to support such a lofty claim. It is our understanding of both that evolves.
Religion does seem to evolve, but not as rapidly and not in the same manner as scientific knowledge. Christianity of today has come a long way from the days of the Inquisition, and Islam several hundred years from now may have become less literal and less tolerant of the violent fundamentalists in their midst. The basic structure of certain belief systems, however, can make it more difficult for change to occur. Religions of the book seem most prone to this, since the book never changes, and reinterpreting it can all too easily result in charges of heresy from the established authorities.
Given that most people follow some belief system or religious practice, it is almost impossible to insulate children from religion until a certain age. They will simply pick up too much at home for this, and like many things, will assume what their parents do is correct, at least until they enter the rebellious teen years. If parents model true respect and even appreciation of different faiths, however, the children will absorb this as well. They will see religion less as an absolute and a dividing line between "us" and "them", than as the avenue for personal spiritual development that it is supposed to be.
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Romana
INTJ
“The awareness of our own weaknesses allows us to view the weaknesses of others with immense compassion and to appreciate the value of their offerings.” ~ Logospilgrim |
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