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CorruptAsHell
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Joined: 18 May 2009
Posts: 12
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 Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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Drugs kill.
Last edited by CorruptAsHell on Tue May 26, 2009 10:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Zephr
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Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 1051
Location: Tacoma
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| Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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| CorruptAsHell wrote: | | If you people would just stop doing drugs, this nonsense wouldn't be a problem. |
That's not at all true. They have lots of drugs to stop the "problem" of thinking too much. That's why I don't use any.
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Lenka
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Joined: 31 Aug 2007
Posts: 3877
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| Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think Atheism is a religion. It certainly shares aspects with religion, like having an effect on one's position towards life and others, it's linked to personal philosophy, etc. But the key difference is that Atheism as a word simply defines the lack of belief in God - hence unlike faith it is a negative, an absense. This absense can then be filled by any non-theistic personal philosophy or belief we choose, and this belief (science, faith in the state, faith in human goodness, etc.) which can replace faith in God, as a similar abstract concept. But atheism in itself isn't a religion.
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Kyle
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Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 2210
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| Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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Even if someone is detached from God, they probably have sight for something on the horizon that they are striving for, which takes faith.
They believe in God without realizing that they are believing in God.
They believe in "something,"
however, if they knew better,
they wouldn't behave in contradicting ways..
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Zephr
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Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 1051
Location: Tacoma
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| Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Kyle wrote: | Even if someone is detached from God, they probably have sight for something on the horizon that they are striving for, which takes faith.
They believe in God without realizing that they are believing in God.
They believe in "something,"
however, if they knew themselves better,
they wouldn't behave in ways that conflict with their faith. |
What makes you think that people who don't believe in god behave in ways that conflict with their "faith"?
You assume that, because you believe your belief to be the only correct one. Yet you believe that your faith is correct because you believe it's the only way a person can truly be fulfilled. You use your conclusion to support itself.
I find that religious fundamentalism like this is the height of human arrogance. You don't believe that your "God" is infallible, you believe that you and your beliefs are infallible. I think that if you could get past that conceit you would be a much more likable and probably even a generally happier person.
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Annabel_Lee
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Joined: 20 Jul 2008
Posts: 1051
Location: A kingdom by the sea
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| Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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| RadicalDreamer wrote: | | Annabel_Lee wrote: | | RadicalDreamer wrote: | | One argument against the theory of evolution that I've seen is that it hasn't been reconstructed in a lab. No one has reproduced it, thus it requires faith to accept it as truth. |
That sounds like a pretty faulty counterargument. There are a lot of theories that describe natural phenomena and hence aren't exactly replicable in the conventional sense of a lab. However, fossil records and paleontological evidence, studies of embryology and comparative physiology, evidence from biochemistry and genetics can all be thought of as micro labs that formulate the evidence to affirm the theory. Yeah we haven't recreated another parallel creation with our knowledge of evolution, but anyone who is familiar with even the basics of evolution would find this an absurd premise for a counterargument. Faith only enters the picture here if belief in the scientific method qualifies as faith. |
Here tell him that:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/reed/reed59.html |
| Quote: | (1) Life was said to have begun by chemical inadvertence in the early seas. Did we, I wondered, really know of what those early seas consisted? Know, not suspect, hope, theorize, divine, speculate, or really, really wish.
The answer was, and is, "no." We have no dried residue, no remaining pools, and the science of planetogenesis isn't nearly good enough to provide a quantitative analysis.
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He seems to be of the same grain of people who argue endlessly about how evolution is not a "law" but a "theory". To theorize in science isn't a haphazard way of being led by a gut feeling or speculation. Extensive evidence is used to back a theoretical claim. Laws and theories aren't differentiated on a scale of trueness; laws make theories. They're really incomparable entities.
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Kyle
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Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 2210
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| Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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Uh oh, more lightning..
| Zephr wrote: | | Kyle wrote: | Even if someone is detached from God, they probably have sight for something on the horizon that they are striving for, which takes faith.
They believe in God without realizing that they are believing in God.
They believe in "something,"
however, if they knew themselves better,
they wouldn't behave in ways that conflict with their faith. |
What makes you think that people who don't believe in god behave in ways that conflict with their "faith"? |
Because true glory requires humbling yourself before God.
| Zephr wrote: | | You assume that, because you believe your belief to be the only correct one. Yet you believe that your faith is correct because you believe it's the only way a person can truly be fulfilled. You use your conclusion to support itself. |
Yes, I agree.
I prove my own existence.
After all, I am here..
| Zephr wrote: | | I find that religious fundamentalism like this is the height of human arrogance. |
Which definition of "religious fundamentalism" are you referring to?
How would religious fundamentalism be the height of human arrogance when non-believers are the ones that arrogantly refuse to believe in a creator?
| Zephr wrote: | | You don't believe that your "God" is infallible, you believe that you and your beliefs are infallible. |
Same thing. That's why my way is the only correct one.
It's rather simple really.
| Zephr wrote: | | I think that if you could get past that conceit you would be a much more likable and probably even a generally happier person. |
Damn, you made me feel like I have no friends.
My best friend for the moment is face-less. yay.
Is Zephr your real name?
Quite the shady figure... Don't hide.
At least I like myself. Oh wait, I do have friends. 
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New levels of truth come from new levels of understanding.
Follow me on Twitter: https://twitter.com/kylewkeith
Save my band: http://sites.google.com/site/savetheascendents/ |
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RadicalDreamer
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Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 4049
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| Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Annabel_Lee wrote: | | RadicalDreamer wrote: | | Annabel_Lee wrote: | | RadicalDreamer wrote: | | One argument against the theory of evolution that I've seen is that it hasn't been reconstructed in a lab. No one has reproduced it, thus it requires faith to accept it as truth. |
That sounds like a pretty faulty counterargument. There are a lot of theories that describe natural phenomena and hence aren't exactly replicable in the conventional sense of a lab. However, fossil records and paleontological evidence, studies of embryology and comparative physiology, evidence from biochemistry and genetics can all be thought of as micro labs that formulate the evidence to affirm the theory. Yeah we haven't recreated another parallel creation with our knowledge of evolution, but anyone who is familiar with even the basics of evolution would find this an absurd premise for a counterargument. Faith only enters the picture here if belief in the scientific method qualifies as faith. |
Here tell him that:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/reed/reed59.html |
| Quote: | (1) Life was said to have begun by chemical inadvertence in the early seas. Did we, I wondered, really know of what those early seas consisted? Know, not suspect, hope, theorize, divine, speculate, or really, really wish.
The answer was, and is, "no." We have no dried residue, no remaining pools, and the science of planetogenesis isn't nearly good enough to provide a quantitative analysis.
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He seems to be of the same grain of people who argue endlessly about how evolution is not a "law" but a "theory". To theorize in science isn't a haphazard way of being led by a gut feeling or speculation. Extensive evidence is used to back a theoretical claim. Laws and theories aren't differentiated on a scale of trueness; laws make theories. They're really incomparable entities. |
I see your point to a degree. I was attracted to his point that some engage in speculation to try and explain "why" a specific trait is the way it is. There is an assumption by some that there is some intelligent purpose behind it. Mental illnesses are hinted at coding for human genius. It is the price a genius must pay for being one. "There is a fine line between genius and madness" as they say. If the kid wasn't a genius he might not be myopic. It is like some think evolution has a divine plan and a personality.
Being miserable maybe part of evolution's divine plan:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_advantages_of_clinical_depression#cite_note-NeeseAdapt-12
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Function preference: Whatever my muse desires and requires at any given moment |
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RadicalDreamer
Advanced Member
Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 4049
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| Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Kyle wrote: | | Zephr wrote: | | I find that religious fundamentalism like this is the height of human arrogance. |
Which definition of "religious fundamentalism" are you referring to? |
He is probably referring to the one that denies people the freedom to decide for themselves and legally discriminates and scapegoats people that believe differently but that do not harm others. Golden rule followers who don't believe in God.
And this is me trying to drain a caldera. 
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| Raven wrote: | |
Function preference: Whatever my muse desires and requires at any given moment |
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Romana
Advanced Member
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 2939
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| Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Lenka wrote: | | I don't think Atheism is a religion. It certainly shares aspects with religion, like having an effect on one's position towards life and others, it's linked to personal philosophy, etc. But the key difference is that Atheism as a word simply defines the lack of belief in God - hence unlike faith it is a negative, an absense. This absense can then be filled by any non-theistic personal philosophy or belief we choose, and this belief (science, faith in the state, faith in human goodness, etc.) which can replace faith in God, as a similar abstract concept. But atheism in itself isn't a religion. |
Or is atheism the firm belief that there is no god? Atheism may not be a religion, but I see it as much a belief system as any religious or spiritual tradition, since the existence of god can no more be disproved than it can be proved.
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Romana
INTJ
“The awareness of our own weaknesses allows us to view the weaknesses of others with immense compassion and to appreciate the value of their offerings.” ~ Logospilgrim |
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nonentropic
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Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 2359
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| Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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describe your God and i will see whether it is a flawed conception. if you say/if it (a theory-belief system-worldview-religion and such) claims to be the best way...then i will see if it is. if one claims a God can do certain things-is certain things-is a certain way and it can be proven that such things are impossible (any one of them), then logically such a God does not exist. i seek the best way. this is a continuous process - like life/living and learning....it was so before i was born and it will be so after i am no longer this living individual human being...as long as "human life" remains.
i am tired of "isms" and/or things supposedly set in stone-unchanging-perfectly rendered for all time (belief systems). they aren't-they do not exist-claims to the contrary are false. i prefer ideals like freedom, truth, love and such. - an all-encompassing way of life/book of ideals is what i'm about...have sought & lived for. realize that ideals cannot be perfectly rendered. thus, neither will what i create-perceive-conceive be prefect either...nor will the works of any others in any way. this is the way things are. this is the way things work. things can be improved. no thing-idea-action-belief-conception is the same...is equal. this fact allows each to make up their own mind and find what they each value most...what works best for them. it's the aiming for and toward the ideals that matters. it does make a difference...everything does in varying degrees. so, i suggest while conscious that each who values good stay focussed on it-make it real-live it. if you love love...highly value love...become it. make it you...express it through you. we are individuals. there are differences between each of us in almost every respect. underlying life principles-systemic "laws" and such we do have in common...language and other things too. parts within a whole...but, we are also in a sense the whole as well. it is outside of us...it is within each of us. the question is who or what describes it best?...all the big questions.... you are able-capable of creating your own life. become responsible for yourself. this is the start of a just society...a just system.
the entire system i believe does make sense if it could ever be viewed-studied from outside itself (without an observer affecting it...which i believe is impossible). the way the entire system works...the best way for humans to live and treat each other...the workings of the biosphere and how it all comes together to create us and our best insights into the way to be-act for the best future for ourselves and others. there will always be self-interest...as long there are "free" individuals - people that are able to think-feel-believe and act-live as they/as each sees fit-chooses-thinks is right.
ps edit: God - is an idea/a concept-a conception/an ideal in at least some senses...like for instance: Justice...Heaven...pefection...eternal life and so on.
for me, others have just not described these things well enough yet...to satisfy me. that's why i have gone farther. that's also why i think i really need to put my conception of things -- life -- ideals and such down before i die. some might find it helpful...and it would probably help my focus and so on as well. we'll see. people must care...otherwise, like in so many other ways, nothing else will matter...there will be no good society...because there are no good people.
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Isra
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Joined: 29 Mar 2008
Posts: 1086
Location: Skagit County, WA
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| Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 12:42 am Post subject: |
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Evolution takes place all the time, every domestic dog came from wolves, from the Great Dane to the Chihuahua. As a matter of fact, any animal breeder has taken part in modern evolution. See also the Dutch breeding different varieties of tulips 400 years ago. We can, and do, make evolution happen in a lab on a regular basis. To deny that evolution happens is to deny concrete evidence.
| Zephr wrote: | | Oh yeah, I'm sure it's totally a coincidence that miracles stopped happening at the same time that we started keeping accurate records. Totally no meaning to that. I'm sorry to have to be the one to tell everyone this, but if the only place evidence for something exists is inside your own head it's probably because inside your own head is the only place it exists. |
| Zephr wrote: | | I guess agnostic is the unofficial religion of the Pacific Northwest. |
Pretty much everyone I hang out with falls under some sort of "God most likely doesn't exist" form of lack of belief. As a matter of fact, it didn't come up in conversation until a couple weeks ago, because we've just never talked about it... the idea of a god just takes up so little of our lives. Spending so much time in my cloistered world of freedom from religion, it's always hard when the God conversation comes up in the real world. And yeah, I play it off like I think God is unknowable, instead of telling people that "I think God is unlikely, but I don't care either way, and you know what? If he does exist, he's an asshole who doesn't care about us." Because it makes people uncomfortable, and I don't want to deal with that, but I hate lying about it. So I just try to avoid the subject.
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(Fi)(Ne)ly tuned ISTP
"In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about life: it goes on."
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Stuckasfook
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Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 544
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| Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 5:28 am Post subject: |
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| The arguments about mysticism do get old quickly. |
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Guyest85
Advanced Member
Joined: 18 May 2009
Posts: 42
Location: Michigan
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| Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 5:46 am Post subject: |
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Lets not forget that no matter what you believe, mathematically there is only 6 possible answers to the god question.
God exists and this can be proven
God exists and this can't be proven
God may or may not exist and this can be proven
God may or may not exist and this can't be proven
God doesn't exist and this can be proven
God doesn't exist and this can't be proven
You see theres no wrong answer so to speak. The thing that pisses me off and this goes for religions, governments, atheists, is trying to coerce people into believe like they do. I stand by atheists, christians, pagans, radicals, anyone who stands up for their beliefs. I don't, won't, cannot appreciate someone who tries to appease others by hiding/modifying their beliefs. |
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Guyest85
Advanced Member
Joined: 18 May 2009
Posts: 42
Location: Michigan
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| Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 5:51 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | i am tired of "isms" and/or things supposedly set in stone-unchanging-perfectly rendered for all time (belief systems). they aren't-they do not exist-claims to the contrary are false. i prefer ideals like freedom, truth, love and such. - an all-encompassing way of life/book of ideals is what i'm about...have sought & lived for. realize that ideals cannot be perfectly rendered. thus, neither will what i create-perceive-conceive be prefect either...nor will the works of any others in any way. this is the way things are. this is the way things work. things can be improved. no thing-idea-action-belief-conception is the same...is equal. this fact allows each to make up their own mind and find what they each value most...what works best for them. it's the aiming for and toward the ideals that matters. it does make a difference...everything does in varying degrees. so, i suggest while conscious that each who values good stay focussed on it-make it real-live it. if you love love...highly value love...become it. make it you...express it through you. we are individuals. there are differences between each of us in almost every respect. underlying life principles-systemic "laws" and such we do have in common...language and other things too. parts within a whole...but, we are also in a sense the whole as well. it is outside of us...it is within each of us. the question is who or what describes it best?...all the big questions.... you are able-capable of creating your own life. become responsible for yourself. this is the start of a just society...a just system. |
(Preach on brother)
This is what the fuck I'm saying!!!! |
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