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Myles_Sometimes
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 Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:07 am Post subject: The Brain is an Antenna |
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Before I get into this...
I'd like to discuss with everyone here what they think the brain is, both from innate feelings about it as well as learned/theories/education/readings about the brain both physiologically and neurologically and concerning the MIND without the mind/body connection.
So yesh. |
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Lenka
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| Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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This reminds me of schizophrenia, the proper kind, not the commonly-used meaning.
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Myles_Sometimes
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| Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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The "mentality or approach characterized by inconsistent or contradictory elements" meaning?
Otherwise, "a long-term mental disorder of a type involving a breakdown in the relation between thought, emotion, and behavior, leading to faulty perception, inappropriate actions and feelings, withdrawal from reality and personal relationships into fantasy and delusion, and a sense of mental fragmentation." fits too perfectly. ^_^
I've plenty of mental fragmentation and a very inconsistent and contradictory mind which makes me very variable. |
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nonentropic
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| Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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? "without the mind/body connection"
without that there will be no consciousness
and there will be for all that matters
nothing---no things---no awareness of anything
self-awareness
and existence of things occurs simultaneously
although after the fact
we...conscious beings-things
understand that non-conscious matter existed first
i see the brain-conscious mind as the control center
in some very real ways-senses...reality IS CREATED HERE
both the external impressions...thru to self-created--self-effected change of reality (self and external things)
as the place where the universe-lifeverse is becoming aware of
and getting to know itself
though us and we (each of us) it
i do not think a state of "no thing" ever existed
largely because it is impossible to conceive of nothing
nothing cannot exist
nothing and existence are mutually exclusive
since things exist
nothing never did and never will
this is how i see things...basically...in some ways
language is an imperfect transmitter
edit: 2 spelling mistakes...typical for me.
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Last edited by nonentropic on Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:53 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Lenka
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| Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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basically what I meant was that the idea of the mind bein an antenna, or like a radio picking up on frequencies, is a schizophrenic kind of a thing to think.
That's all.
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Myles_Sometimes
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| Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 4:41 am Post subject: |
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| nonentropic wrote: |
occurs simultaneously
although after the fact
we...conscious beings-things
understand that non-conscious matter existed first
____
as the place where the universe-lifeverse is becoming aware of
and getting to know itself
though us and we (each of us) it
______
language is an imperfect transmitter
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I agree and have thought that out, the first part of what you said that I have quoted. Consciousness was created to facilitate what was already here: thought.
Yesh, we're here for a purpose beyond what we are convinced is our lives. Our lives are to perceive and share and have all the thoughts in the universe thought of.
And I love language, rather, I only love english or what little of english I've mastered in writing.
And Lenka:
Yes. I'm quite schizophrenic. |
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Annabel_Lee
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| Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Myles_Sometimes wrote: | | nonentropic wrote: |
occurs simultaneously
although after the fact
we...conscious beings-things
understand that non-conscious matter existed first
____
as the place where the universe-lifeverse is becoming aware of
and getting to know itself
though us and we (each of us) it
______
language is an imperfect transmitter
|
I agree and have thought that out, the first part of what you said that I have quoted. Consciousness was created to facilitate what was already here: thought. |
Hmm, I don't know if I agree. I'd argue that thought exists after consciousness.
There's a quote by Marx that I'm a fan of: "Life is not determined by consciousness, but consciousness by life" where he suggests that it is the material experience of human life that forms the groundwork for consciousness. Life is just a state we're granted, consciousness is where the self really builds.
But within the bounds of your terminology, we could almost think of that as "[Consciousness] is not determined by [thought], but [thought] by [consciousness]". Consciousness is a passive sort of awareness that sets the stage for more complex wrangles with active thought.
| Myles_Sometimes wrote: | | Quote: | | language is an imperfect transmitter |
And I love language, rather, I only love english or what little of english I've mastered in writing. |
Yeah, more dominant schools of thought in psycholinguistics always warrant the existence of language before thought. Thought without language isn't really thought as we know it.
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Myles_Sometimes
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| Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 4:08 am Post subject: |
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| Annabel_Lee wrote: |
1] Hmm, I don't know if I agree. I'd argue that thought exists after consciousness.
There's a quote by Marx that I'm a fan of: "Life is not determined by consciousness, but consciousness by life" where he suggests that it is the material experience of human life that forms the groundwork for consciousness. Life is just a state we're granted, consciousness is where the self really builds.
2]But within the bounds of your terminology, we could almost think of that as "[Consciousness] is not determined by [thought], but [thought] by [consciousness]". Consciousness is a passive sort of awareness that sets the stage for more complex wrangles with active thought.
Yeah, more dominant schools of thought in psycholinguistics always warrant the existence of language before thought. Thought without language isn't really thought as we know it. |
1] Well then, it could be argued that thought exists before and after consciousness. Regardless, there is no defining definition or description that's universal enough to explain or even make much sense without sounding mystical about the consciousness we all SEEM to possess.
I get what you're saying and quoting of Marx, but that's an awareness that only sees the consciousness from the socio-economic side. He deals with the awareness of your own class and how you play a part or don't.
Life, is governed by thought, the universe is governed just the same. Thought proceeded everything that exists and to currently exist, we think. We're all conscious, you me the keyboard you're dabbing on the mouse or trackpad you use, the surface of the screen you stare at, the chair or bed or desk you're sitting at. I only see Marx as being a facet to an otherwise more vast kaleidoscope.
And so 2] I don't necessarily have bounds on any terminology I use... but Consciousness is thinking thought, rather.(Thought is a noun yes, but also the past tense of thinking, you forgot that part and it's sort of key to why I think the universe happens in ripples and why the brain is just an antenna and not a super computer.) And our existence is a thought thought of. Our atoms and molecules arrange them within the blueprint thought of to give us the shape and feel and density... and thinking is done by every little thing in the universe. The will to remain existent to always think and be thought of.
This notion is prevalent in memory. People don't want to be forgotten. To be forgotten is to not exist. "If I died suddenly... would people remember me?" Same with a tree in a forest.
Everyone seems to be convinced that sentience is only a human thing and that no animal or inanimate object may do so. If everyone really believed that we're the only thinking things in the universe, we'd not have 'personification' or the 'apostrophy' in English. |
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Myles_Sometimes
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| Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 4:08 am Post subject: |
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Oh yeah!
And I don't think language came before thought. |
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Zephr
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| Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:28 am Post subject: |
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I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around the idea of thought being a thing separate from consciousness. As near as I can tell, they're two different labels for the same thing.
Also, thought without language is easy. Every time you think of a shape, a sound, a texture, or anything else that isn't words you are thinking without language. Language is how we try to contain our thoughts in a way that allows them to be communicated, but haven't you ever had an idea and not known how to say it? I do. All the time.
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Myles_Sometimes
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| Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:44 am Post subject: |
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I've never said that thought is separate from consciousness. I'm saying that more things are conscious and are thinking/aware of themselves and things around them.
And no, consciousness and thought are not the same thing, for your information.
Thoughts are NOT generated in the brain tissue. Rather, to move your arm, an impulse happens before it leaves the main neuron for motor functions, it uses the small charged to latch onto the thought of the direction impulse/reflex for said arm. The thought relays with the arm and moves it way faster than the impulse EVER reaches the arm muscles. You can see this analogy from Quantum physics and experiments on thought. OR, you could rent, "WHAT THE BLEEP down the Rabbit Hole." |
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Zephr
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| Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Myles_Sometimes wrote: | I've never said that thought is separate from consciousness. I'm saying that more things are conscious and are thinking/aware of themselves and things around them.
And no, consciousness and thought are not the same thing, for your information. |
Other people have said that in this thread and others. Perhaps I was talking to them?
| Myles_Sometimes wrote: | | Thoughts are NOT generated in the brain tissue. Rather, to move your arm, an impulse happens before it leaves the main neuron for motor functions, it uses the small charged to latch onto the thought of the direction impulse/reflex for said arm. The thought relays with the arm and moves it way faster than the impulse EVER reaches the arm muscles. You can see this analogy from Quantum physics and experiments on thought. OR, you could rent, "WHAT THE BLEEP down the Rabbit Hole." |
Or you know, maybe reflex reactions are generated locally without thought, and that's why you can't control them. But sure, we can use quantum. Quantum explains everything. Even things not remotely related to quantum physics apparently.
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Annabel_Lee
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| Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Myles_Sometimes wrote: | 1] Well then, it could be argued that thought exists before and after consciousness. Regardless, there is no defining definition or description that's universal enough to explain or even make much sense without sounding mystical about the consciousness we all SEEM to possess.
I get what you're saying and quoting of Marx, but that's an awareness that only sees the consciousness from the socio-economic side. He deals with the awareness of your own class and how you play a part or don't. |
Well kind of, but that idea of his stands in contrast with more transcendental schools of thought that argue material life unfolded because of an innate sort of consciousness.
| Quote: |
Life, is governed by thought, the universe is governed just the same. Thought proceeded everything that exists and to currently exist, we think. We're all conscious, you me the keyboard you're dabbing on the mouse or trackpad you use, the surface of the screen you stare at, the chair or bed or desk you're sitting at. I only see Marx as being a facet to an otherwise more vast kaleidoscope.
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Wait wait wait, if consciousness is thinking thought, then my keyboard isn't really conscious. Yeah it's got an essence that precedes its existence, there is thought put in place in its creation, but it doesn't think thoughts, therefore I can't call it conscious. It's currently just one of the mediums that is transmitting my thoughts. | Quote: |
And so 2] I don't necessarily have bounds on any terminology I use... but Consciousness is thinking thought, rather.(Thought is a noun yes, but also the past tense of thinking, you forgot that part and it's sort of key to why I think the universe happens in ripples and why the brain is just an antenna and not a super computer.) And our existence is a thought thought of. Our atoms and molecules arrange them within the blueprint thought of to give us the shape and feel and density... and thinking is done by every little thing in the universe. The will to remain existent to always think and be thought of.
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We're not special, but not everything is capable of thought. A thought may precede cyclical interrelations of existence, but its existence doesn't necessarily imply that the thing itself is capable of thought.
| Quote: | This notion is prevalent in memory. People don't want to be forgotten. To be forgotten is to not exist. "If I died suddenly... would people remember me?" Same with a tree in a forest.
Everyone seems to be convinced that sentience is only a human thing and that no animal or inanimate object may do so. If everyone really believed that we're the only thinking things in the universe, we'd not have 'personification' or the 'apostrophy' in English. |
Sure but sentience is related to consciousness, and if consciousness is the active capacity of thinking thoughts, I'm having trouble seeing how everything can be conscious.
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Myles_Sometimes
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| Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Zephr wrote: |
Or you know, maybe reflex reactions are generated locally without thought, and that's why you can't control them. But sure, we can use quantum. Quantum explains everything. Even things not remotely related to quantum physics apparently. |
Eh. No need to seem sarcastic. I could be wrong in what I sense of your text but hey! Everyone says that of quantum physics and sciences dealing with the atomic level redefining reality.
And that's just sounds like an element of some kind of thinking I'm sure I know the name of, "generated locally without thought". Stand alone machine with stand alone parts with stand alone reactions in a stand alone reality. The hit caused by a rubber mallet a doctor uses to test reflexes could cause absolute friction in a vertical concentrated line from the hit, going through the skin tissue, muscle, and the tendon, causing an involuntary motion that's WITHIN the muscles range. It's still a thought to thought connection. |
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Zephr
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| Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Myles_Sometimes wrote: | | Zephr wrote: |
Or you know, maybe reflex reactions are generated locally without thought, and that's why you can't control them. But sure, we can use quantum. Quantum explains everything. Even things not remotely related to quantum physics apparently. |
Eh. No need to seem sarcastic. I could be wrong in what I sense of your text but hey! Everyone says that of quantum physics and sciences dealing with the atomic level redefining reality.
And that's just sounds like an element of some kind of thinking I'm sure I know the name of, "generated locally without thought". Stand alone machine with stand alone parts with stand alone reactions in a stand alone reality. The hit caused by a rubber mallet a doctor uses to test reflexes could cause absolute friction in a vertical concentrated line from the hit, going through the skin tissue, muscle, and the tendon, causing an involuntary motion that's WITHIN the muscles range. It's still a thought to thought connection. |
Sorry, I kinda thought for a minute that your post was sarcastic, and I responded similarly. I've been awfully defensive around here lately, and I apologize.
Anyway, what I'm was referring to was about something I've read recently. It seems that apparently muscles have a mechanism that stores memories in much the same way as the brain. From my point of view, that would seem to make more sense if muscles store information on how to respond to certain stimuli than if they stored memory in the traditional sense. After all, nobody ever lost their arm and immediately forgot their high school graduation or anything of that nature.
Is that a kind of thought not happening in the brain? I suppose you could say it is. I still think that the body and it's chemical and physical reactions are responsible for thought though.
I also still don't see how consciousness is different from thought. How can you have one without the other? What would a conscious but unthinking entity be conscious of? It would be no more or less than a camera, completely unaware of what it was "aware" of. Then what would a thinking but unconscious entity be thinking about? It would be no more or less than a computer with no user or programs. It would have no thoughts to think.
So while thought and consciousness might be different, they are two inseparable parts of the same thing. They can only occur in tandem.
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