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| Are there fundamental human rights? |
| Yes |
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53% |
[ 16 ] |
| No |
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36% |
[ 11 ] |
| I'm unsure |
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10% |
[ 3 ] |
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| Total Votes : 30 |
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Jhyana
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Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 1903
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 Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 5:33 am Post subject: Are there fundamental human rights? |
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| As far as I know, we develop governments, for the most part, on this planet, based on the idea of fundamental human rights; but is this a legitimate conviction, or is it vain ("I don't want to be oppressed so we have rights.")? |
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Jhyana
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Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 1903
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 5:46 am Post subject: |
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I have no idea if there are rights associated with living life, though I gravitate towards shoulds--to some extent. The idea of rights--policing ourselves--have had both positive and negative effects on us human beings; though, with the atavistic ideal of emancipation and an enlightened society, our species has experienced more harm--as far as I know.
I'm really on the fence. |
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Azrael
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Joined: 29 Feb 2008
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:27 am Post subject: |
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I believe in a fundamental right to a fair share in the proceeds of the economy, and a right to vote as to what is produced. this is because production is social, therefore, so should be the benefits.
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lordofthefood1
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Joined: 24 Aug 2007
Posts: 4229
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 8:10 am Post subject: |
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I don't think there are rights, but instead a humane drive to have some form of ethical structure.
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Romana
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Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 2939
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 12:33 pm Post subject: Re: Are there fundamental human rights? |
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| Jhyana wrote: | | As far as I know, we develop governments, for the most part, on this planet, based on the idea of fundamental human rights; but is this a legitimate conviction, or is it vain ("I don't want to be oppressed so we have rights.")? |
Governments are not always developed on the basis of fundamental human rights.
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Romana
INTJ
“The awareness of our own weaknesses allows us to view the weaknesses of others with immense compassion and to appreciate the value of their offerings.” ~ Logospilgrim |
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Lenka
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Joined: 31 Aug 2007
Posts: 3877
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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I'm now tangled up in my views on this.
Must go detangle myself.
'ta.
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AvereX
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Joined: 01 Sep 2007
Posts: 1442
Location: Cooling.....
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 5:10 pm Post subject: Re: Are there fundamental human rights? |
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| Romana wrote: | | Jhyana wrote: | | As far as I know, we develop governments, for the most part, on this planet, based on the idea of fundamental human rights; but is this a legitimate conviction, or is it vain ("I don't want to be oppressed so we have rights.")? |
Governments are not always developed on the basis of fundamental human rights. |
Only the guise of them.
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Rasputin
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Joined: 27 Dec 2007
Posts: 1358
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| Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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It is people who do not believe in an objective reality (or our ablility to know one) that don't believe in things such as fundamental human rights.
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C.Beck
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Joined: 23 Jun 2007
Posts: 2964
Location: Ontario
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| Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 12:53 am Post subject: |
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| Rasputin wrote: | | It is people who do not believe in an objective reality (or our ablility to know one) that don't believe in things such as fundamental human rights. |
I believe in an objective reality, and our ability to know one, and i do not think aywhere in that reality does it say what a man can and cannot do.
I think constructing human rights is necessary in the world we occupy right now, but it is very far from fundamental or intrinsic.
Where in objective reality can we see what a humans rights are? or any rights?
We are the tiniest blip of dim light in the universe. There's no higher cause. We just happened, and bam, if we want everyone to be most happy, human rights help out a lot (considering we've already gone down the pathway of government and such as a species). But that's a creation of our minds, and doesn't really connect with what we are and where we came from, or a purpose, outside of our societal contructs.
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RadicalDreamer
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Ziv
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Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 365
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| Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:45 am Post subject: |
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| Rasputin wrote: | | It is people who do not believe in an objective reality (or our ablility to know one) that don't believe in things such as fundamental human rights. |
In the case of an objective reality based in divine creation, there's not necessarily such thing as a fundamental human right. Human rights, if any, would be decided by whatever deity created us. In the case of an objective reality based in abiogenesis from non-living matter, there's still no such thing as a fundamental human rights. Human rights would be arbitrarily chosen by people. |
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C.Beck
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Joined: 23 Jun 2007
Posts: 2964
Location: Ontario
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| Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:49 am Post subject: |
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| Ziv wrote: | | Rasputin wrote: | | It is people who do not believe in an objective reality (or our ablility to know one) that don't believe in things such as fundamental human rights. |
In the case of an objective reality based in divine creation, there's not necessarily such thing as a fundamental human right. Human rights, if any, would be decided by whatever deity created us. In the case of an objective reality based in abiogenesis from non-living matter, there's still no such thing as a fundamental human rights. Human rights would be arbitrarily chosen by people. |
That was far more concise and clear than my attempt. Thanks
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Romana
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Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 2939
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| Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:51 am Post subject: |
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| C.Beck wrote: | | Ziv wrote: | | Rasputin wrote: | | It is people who do not believe in an objective reality (or our ablility to know one) that don't believe in things such as fundamental human rights. |
In the case of an objective reality based in divine creation, there's not necessarily such thing as a fundamental human right. Human rights, if any, would be decided by whatever deity created us. In the case of an objective reality based in abiogenesis from non-living matter, there's still no such thing as a fundamental human rights. Human rights would be arbitrarily chosen by people. |
That was far more concise and clear than my attempt. Thanks |
Yes, except one would hope that the choice wouldn't be arbitrary.
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Romana
INTJ
“The awareness of our own weaknesses allows us to view the weaknesses of others with immense compassion and to appreciate the value of their offerings.” ~ Logospilgrim |
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AvereX
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Joined: 01 Sep 2007
Posts: 1442
Location: Cooling.....
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| Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:53 am Post subject: |
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| Romana wrote: | | C.Beck wrote: | | Ziv wrote: | | Rasputin wrote: | | It is people who do not believe in an objective reality (or our ablility to know one) that don't believe in things such as fundamental human rights. |
In the case of an objective reality based in divine creation, there's not necessarily such thing as a fundamental human right. Human rights, if any, would be decided by whatever deity created us. In the case of an objective reality based in abiogenesis from non-living matter, there's still no such thing as a fundamental human rights. Human rights would be arbitrarily chosen by people. |
That was far more concise and clear than my attempt. Thanks |
Yes, except one would hope that the choice wouldn't be arbitrary. |
LMAO
I agree with you, Romana,
but its funny
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ammavaru
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Joined: 02 Nov 2007
Posts: 112
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| Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:58 am Post subject: |
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It is both vain and legitimate. I don't want to be oppressed, so from there I assume that others don't either, and that they might revolt violently in response to oppression, which is also a situation that I don't want and I assume that others don't want it as well…
.......
| Quote: |
The scientists found chimps demonstrated "inequity aversion" when they were treated unfairly, but not when they received the better reward.
They seemed willing to take advantage of good luck while their partner lost out. The same response was seen in capuchins.
But even this selfish response mirrored human behaviour, said the researchers.
"Whereas people may prefer equity to any sort of inequity, advantageous inequity is typically preferred to disadvantageous inequity," the researchers write in Proceedings B.
"Most people tend to respond by psychological rather than material compensation - that is, justifying why they deserved a superior reward - and most people will choose to ignore information that could lead to a more fair outcome at a cost to the self." |
Ah well nevermind....fuck it. Bastards...
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