similarminds.com

[Darvick]

Are there fundimental human rights?

My first thought is that I see no reason to attribute humans any specific right based on species... There is no reason a dog, cow, or bug has any right beyond what it can enforce in the world, and I see no reason a human should differ from that logic - and they don't!

Going with the concept that humans are much better than most species at carrying out there desires, both tactically and strategically, it follows that humans are better equiped to enforce their assumed rights - ever notice that humans tend to claim far more 'rights' than dogs do?

Organisations of humans are well equiped to enforce their desires to be safe, free, etc., even amongst themselves. Of course, we see examples of how one human's will negates the will of another human all the time. Thus, to assume that any 'right' is fundimental is absurd... If a person's claimed 'rights' were fundimental, they would not need to be 'enforced', they would be the foundation of our behavior...

Furthermore, a 'right' to do something is only as good as the entity that enforces that 'right'. The issue of 'rights' becomes an issue of political, religious, military, etc. power. One can claim a 'right', one can enforce a 'right', one can even assume a 'right', but one cannot be assured of that 'right', ever, under any circumstances...

Conclusion: the concept of a fundimental 'right' is an illusion, only as visible as the environment allows.

All that being said, as far as humans go, we have the oportunity, within our organised structure to 'choose' to mutually enforce a common set of 'rights' for the purpose of mutual advancement. Typically this is done through laws, police, courts, and prisons. But also through peer-presure and human self-sacrifice in the face of those who would seek to break your will to enforce your rights.

So, if we modify the question to be: Are there a set of rights that we, as humans, with regard to humans, should choose, mutually, to co-enforce amongst our own ranks?

I would say, that question has already been attempted, in many different ways, by many different organisations/humans, with many different results - choose, vote, point a gun, apply whatever form of 'enforcement' you want to those 'rights' you hold dear - I am pretty sure that you have already seen the result somewhere, sometime...

If I was to put a 'right' on the table for promotion to 'fundimental', I would say, the right of vengence. Vengence is the only option when enforcement of your rights has been stript away. Vengence is justice in the absence of timely enforcement

Of course, vengence must be enforced as well, so perhaps the fundimental right is the right to attempt to enforce that which you hold dear... We can call it: The Law of the Jungle!
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INTJ...
Ennegram: 5, 3, 1, 9
Functional Strengths: Ni, Te, Ne, Ti
Avg IQ: 141 (134 to 161)
"If knowledge is power, and its application your will, then wisdom is the sum of your power, and wisdom shared, is the alignment of others to your will..."

[Benzai]

Rights? no.

Why is the earth 3/4 filled with water meant for humans who have no gills?
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Chinese funny man.

[Rasputin]

Darvick, this doesn't hold up because humans are different. We are able to conceive of morality. This separates us from the animals. We are the current peak of earth's evolution. Morality separates us from the law of the jungle.
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ENTJ 1w9 sp/so scOE[I]
s(54%) c(66%) o(74%) e(84%) i(88%)

[KNL]

Lol

Yeah, we're different. We're special. We're sooooooo important.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p86BPM1GV8M
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I'm your type.

"Oh, crap, she's got feelings."
"I'd rather be a smartass than a dumbass."
"What can I say, I'm intellectually promiscuous."

[Romana]

[Rasputin]

The jungle, as we are calling it, is governed by instinct. This leads to what may be better survival skills and group kinship cohesion or somethingl like that, but it also leads to survival of the fittest. There is no free will involved. As humans, we have the congitive capacity to conceive of morality. That's what sets us apart. Not the actuality of our behavior. Our potential to strive for something higher.
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ENTJ 1w9 sp/so scOE[I]
s(54%) c(66%) o(74%) e(84%) i(88%)

[lordofthefood1]

I think the difference between humans and animals is that animals don't [usually] vouch for 'human' rights.

Sure, animals don't have TV and the media and cell phones and the internet. But, even if they did, I don't think they would say, "Damn you shark! How could you eat a human."



If we manipulate the word rights, I think that there is at least one of fundamental status: the right to die (which is even being taken away from us by life support and heaps of modern medicine. Not that those are bad things.)

blahblahblah

I'm speaking from a different set of eyes.
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Behold the world in other people, life is clarity.

[Jhyana]

The other aminals are not conscious of themselves, I think; because when a mirror is placed in front of them they react as if their reflection is another one of them. We, on the other hand, know that the ugly bastard we see is our reflection.
^ I'm not sure on this.

Animals are not contradictory. For example they don't practice both real politique and moralism. Also, leopards don't discriminate against panthers.

[lordofthefood1]

But they do compete, nop?

I was making a joke before.
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Behold the world in other people, life is clarity.

[Jhyana]

[Romana]

[Isra]

Actually, Jhyana...

One of my cats likes to look at herself in the mirror. She likes to look at me in the mirror. If she is in front of the mirror, and I call her name, she will make eye contact VIA the mirror. Thereby proving that not only does she like looking in the mirror, but she understands exactly what it is. She even seems to understand how the angles of sight work. (She also likes to watch television.)

My other cat walks by the mirror all of the time, never giving it a second glance.
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(Fi)(Ne)ly tuned ISTP

"In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about life: it goes on."
-Robert Frost

[Thrusthamster]

I've read (don't know if it was a reliable source), that cats are able to recognize themselves in the mirror, and dogs can't. I've seen this in action myself. My cat has never been troubled by the mirror, and looks at me in the mirror like Isra's cat does. But when my dog was a puppy, and we brought him home for the first time, he was scared when he saw himself in the mirror for the first time. He stopped dead in his tracks, began whimpering, and pissed himself. My cat never did that, even though he was nervous when we got him.
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ENTPEEEEEEEEEEEEE, SCUEI, type 9... and stuff.

Thrusthamster's Youtubia

"Whoever finishes first, we'll call him the Ironman."

[julianameless]

[Thrusthamster]

My dog is a spectacularly stupid dog, so that might explain things.
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ENTPEEEEEEEEEEEEE, SCUEI, type 9... and stuff.

Thrusthamster's Youtubia

"Whoever finishes first, we'll call him the Ironman."