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HT
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 Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 4:30 am Post subject: Why depression? |
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Why is it that when someone tell me something that I have to realize about reality, I get depressed? Is there any way to look at it positively? ISTPs, ISTJs, and ISFPs help me out. How do you look at reality positively?
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shorty
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 8:20 am Post subject: |
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Why are you asking those three types ?
Maybe you get depressed when you realise that your ideas / way of thinking doesn't fit in with / work in the real world.
I think i just repeated what you said in a different way though..
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xinaes1
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 8:33 am Post subject: |
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| You just have to look at it differently HT. Instead of being depressed at that ol big smack-in-the-face realization of yourself, you could just be excited that you are another step forward in knowing yourself more honestly. Hope that helps |
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zillah
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with xineas.
Also... us Ts would like to think that we can look into the face of any truth without flinching... but we still have as much emotional nature as anybody, so be kind to yourself. Maybe it's just not realistic to expect to feel joyous at those times. Have a hot chocolate and curl up with a good movie, or whatever boys do for comfort things, I don't know. |
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DreamingOne
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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Haha, I'd try to give you advice but I'm depressed waaaaay to often to know the solution.  I've been told that you need to just focus on enjoying the present moment and what actually 'is', rather than thinking up all sorts of scenerios that would be better. But ENTP depression might be a bit different from ENFP depression, I'm not sure.
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HT
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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| zillah wrote: | I agree with xineas.
Also... us Ts would like to think that we can look into the face of any truth without flinching... but we still have as much emotional nature as anybody, so be kind to yourself. Maybe it's just not realistic to expect to feel joyous at those times. Have a hot chocolate and curl up with a good movie, or whatever boys do for comfort things, I don't know. |
FOOTBALL!!! 
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HT
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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| DreamingOne wrote: | | Haha, I'd try to give you advice but I'm depressed waaaaay to often to know the solution. I've been told that you need to just focus on enjoying the present moment and what actually 'is', rather than thinking up all sorts of scenerios that would be better. But ENTP depression might be a bit different from ENFP depression, I'm not sure. |
Maybe ENTPs don't really get depressed too often. It's just that I'm not that typical ENTP.
Every single ENFP I talk to always tell me they get depressed often.
So since I developed this emotional side. I get depressed like an ENFP.
Everytime someone reminds me of the reality of my situation, I get depressed. My way of dealing with it is to not talk about and think about what I need to do to turn my currently negative situation into a positive situation. BUT my ESTJ and ESTP parents keep talking about it. Then the rest comes from people who talk to me about school, which I often avoid talking about. I just tell them the truth and get depressed because mentioning reminds me of what my parents told me.
I don't think I would get depressed this often if my parents wouldn't shut up about it and there's no stopping them from shutting up. Telling them to shut up will make them talk even more reality crap, which I would eventually start punching and smashing objects around me in rage.
Showing my anger would probably stop my ESTJ dad from talking cuz he doesn't intend to make me angry. But ESTP mom is stubborn...and you know where that leads to...
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DreamingOne
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 2:45 am Post subject: |
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Oh my God HT, do I ever know where you're coming from. Seriously. I feel your pain. People are too stupid to realize that sometimes I just need to forget about my current situation to be happy. All these fucking so-called 'realists' like to throw things in my face, or tell me what they think I should do, or why what I'm thinking or feeling or doing is not very 'practical.'  It's not like I'm stupid, I am quite aware of the fact that I don't operate the same way they do.
*takes deep breath* Sorry, I just had another bad encounter with the ISFJ stepmother, and the ISTP father ignores the situation as much as he can but stands by her, of course. She. . .has. . .no. . .brain. I can't believe I managed not to lose my temper, but I swear, tomorrow if she says one more word I'm going to FLIP out and that will be bad. Bad in the long-term, but quite satisfying.
We're moving you see, and she is being bossy. The room I'm getting in the new house has the world's ugliest industrial carpet in it, it's like something out of a waiting room. She wasn't even going to let me paint my room before, but I think my dad talked her out of that so now I am allowed to paint. Understand, I am an artist through and through. I can NOT be happy unless my sanctuary (and my room is my sanctuary, I absolutely need it to stay sane) is personalized just to my liking. Anyway, I said I'd have to ignore the carpet and just paint the walls the way I had originally planned...my plan is really cool, btw. The ISFJ got all snippy and demanding and said I had to make the walls match the carpet.
The carpet is fucking ugly, I am not painting the walls to match. I am ignoring the carpet. Anyway, she pulled the whole "This is my house and I am not having a room in it that clashes" thing.
That was insulting too, because honestly, anything I do is going to look cool by the time I'm done. I love designing rooms. She is so boring, I feel like strangling her sometimes. I don't interfere with anything she does, I listen to her as much as I'm capable, the whole house is hers and looks really boring and ugly, that's fine. But how dare she try to make my personal space as boring and ugly as all of hers are.
But...yes. I am so stressed out these days and she knows that, so much has been going on in my life. I even tried the heartfelt honest approach, saying, "I find this really frustrating, because you don't understand my temperament at all! You're not understanding that I need this." Yeah, she ignored me. Then of course I just wanted to cry. I hate being an NFP sometimes.
I have to be with her all day tomorrow. My dad will be working.
Anybody got a gun? I think I'll kill myself now. God, I don't want to live with that woman anymore! That's the real issue of course, that and the whole she's-already-got-my-dad-so-she'd-better-leave-me-alone thing. Trite and typical maybe, but I am still just about ready to flip. Holy FUCK, she is ANNOYING! Are all ISFJs like that?!
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zillah
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 9:59 am Post subject: |
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| DreamingOne wrote: | | All these fucking so-called 'realists' like to throw things in my face, or tell me what they think I should do, or why what I'm thinking or feeling or doing is not very 'practical.' It's not like I'm stupid, I am quite aware of the fact that I don't operate the same way they do. |
Yeah I hate to see Ss doing this to Ns. When the S has the authority (or thinks they do) and gets into bulldozer mode and mix up being a good person with being an S, so they think they are helping by pressuring an NP to behave more methodical and regular and not "let them have their own way". Nobody should have to have their identity asaulted like that.
| DreamingOne wrote: | | Holy FUCK, she is ANNOYING! Are all ISFJs like that?! |
No, they really aren't. SJs limits tend to be quite fixed ones, but they are not necessarily so intrusive.
I'm really bummed that you've tried to talk it out and she didn't respond. The things she's doing sound really inappropriate to me - telling you how many clothes you can have and how your room will look? That might be ok for a 3 year old!! This overcontrol strangulation can trash relationships between child and parent, let alone step parent.
And don't worry about being too emotional, you're really not. I'm 30 and I still cry over some of the things my mum says to me, and I'm supposed to be the most toughminded type. Anybody would cry in a situation where their needs are not respected and they don't have power over the situation, it hurts like hell. (Don't forget what it feels like, and don't do it to your kids.)
Sorry this is a bit T ish and analytical D but I do feel for ya!  |
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Toby
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:12 am Post subject: |
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ENTPs don't get depressed by problems, as long as they have solutions. Or potential solutions. Or decide that they just don't have the solution right now, but they will one day.
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DreamingOne
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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| zillah wrote: | | DreamingOne wrote: | | All these fucking so-called 'realists' like to throw things in my face, or tell me what they think I should do, or why what I'm thinking or feeling or doing is not very 'practical.' It's not like I'm stupid, I am quite aware of the fact that I don't operate the same way they do. |
Yeah I hate to see Ss doing this to Ns. When the S has the authority (or thinks they do) and gets into bulldozer mode and mix up being a good person with being an S, so they think they are helping by pressuring an NP to behave more methodical and regular and not "let them have their own way". Nobody should have to have their identity asaulted like that.
| DreamingOne wrote: | | Holy FUCK, she is ANNOYING! Are all ISFJs like that?! |
No, they really aren't. SJs limits tend to be quite fixed ones, but they are not necessarily so intrusive.
I'm really bummed that you've tried to talk it out and she didn't respond. The things she's doing sound really inappropriate to me - telling you how many clothes you can have and how your room will look? That might be ok for a 3 year old!! This overcontrol strangulation can trash relationships between child and parent, let alone step parent.
And don't worry about being too emotional, you're really not. I'm 30 and I still cry over some of the things my mum says to me, and I'm supposed to be the most toughminded type. Anybody would cry in a situation where their needs are not respected and they don't have power over the situation, it hurts like hell. (Don't forget what it feels like, and don't do it to your kids.)
Sorry this is a bit T ish and analytical D but I do feel for ya! |
No, that was just what I needed to hear. It makes me feel better that an ISTJ sees the absurdity of the situation. Makes me feel less unreasonable and stupid. This is really stressful, and the bad thing is I'm programmed to be a people pleaser, I can't help it, so I feel horribly conflicted when I'm put in a position where I have to fight to be myself, especially if there's the possibility of hurting somebody. But if I'm backed into a corner I will fight, I hope she realizes this.
A part of me thinks she resents me because my Dad, for all his ignoring me for her sake these days, adores me, and I'm not her daughter. Nor am I anything like her, in fact we're practically opposites. I make her feel threatened sometimes too I think, because I'll be chatting with my dad and going at a hundred miles a minute and way off into iNtuitive land, and he'll be right there and fascinated and loving it, and she'll be like, ". . ." I think she's trying to get one up on me the only way she can, but it's inappropriate and childish. And I mean, come on she's in her fifties and I'm TWENTY for crying out loud, not even a teenager, and she's only lived with us for a year.
I really do wonder if this sort of uncomfortable relationship is common between ENFPs and ISFJs. I think my boss at work is an ISFJ, and she recently started stomping on me too, much to the bewilderment of my coworkers. And with her it's also harmless cheery ENFPisms that she's trying to squeeze out of me.
I'm telling you, I HATE having an ISFJ in a position of 'authority' over me, I really do. The boss isn't so bad, because I can leave a job, but I can't move out for a little while yet. ($$$$$$$) And you can never leave a family.
| Toby wrote: | | ENTPs don't get depressed by problems, as long as they have solutions. Or potential solutions. Or decide that they just don't have the solution right now, but they will one day. |
I think that's the way it is with everyone in a way, isn't it? You've got to have hope.
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HT
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:26 am Post subject: |
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Well Zillah, you're giving me the idea that my parents suffer just the same as I do when I am different from them. Yet, it still doesn't change anything. I just got one more piece of knowledge, that's all. But yeah, we all suffer from people with different values from us. It's much like we can actually hurt each other just because we are different.
In a wider scope, people misinterpreting people will cause friction and conflict starts. That's why sometimes the worst war is close at home. It's not about losing your arm or any of your body parts. It's about losing your mind.
So what's the solution? The best is probably family counseling if every family member agrees to have such an consultation. But you know...it's hard to come by. It also cost money.
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zillah
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| Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 2:07 am Post subject: |
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| DreamingOne wrote: | | No, that was just what I needed to hear. It makes me feel better that an ISTJ sees the absurdity of the situation. Makes me feel less unreasonable and stupid. |
| DreamingOne wrote: |
This is really stressful, and the bad thing is I'm programmed to be a people pleaser, I can't help it, so I feel horribly conflicted when I'm put in a position where I have to fight to be myself, especially if there's the possibility of hurting somebody. But if I'm backed into a corner I will fight, I hope she realizes this. |
This is very easy for me to say, but the best thing you can probably do is analyze the shit out of all the process of your relationship. First of all, anything that puts you in "observer" mind is going to help you keep perspective and get out of the painful mentality of blaming yourself, or her, or both. Second, with enough understanding of the conflict, and what her needs are that are not being met, it's possible you may find the right places to apply some leverage to contain the situation.
Much as it would be very understandable if you exploded all over this woman, direct opposition serves to entrench and intensify conflict, which in the context of family, of course, just gets more and more painful because you can't escape from them. (I don't just mean physically escape.) Try to use more of a martial arts approach, find a smart way to sidestep the fight.
| DreamingOne wrote: | | A part of me thinks she resents me because my Dad, for all his ignoring me for her sake these days, adores me, and I'm not her daughter. Nor am I anything like her, in fact we're practically opposites. I make her feel threatened sometimes too I think, because I'll be chatting with my dad and going at a hundred miles a minute and way off into iNtuitive land, and he'll be right there and fascinated and loving it, and she'll be like, ". . ." I think she's trying to get one up on me the only way she can, but it's inappropriate and childish. And I mean, come on she's in her fifties and I'm TWENTY for crying out loud, not even a teenager, and she's only lived with us for a year. |
You're twenty, god, she is completely off with the fairies if she thinks she can achieve so much dominance over you. I'm assuming she isn't like this with her own kid? (If he is S he probably didn't push the right buttons.)
| DreamingOne wrote: | I really do wonder if this sort of uncomfortable relationship is common between ENFPs and ISFJs. I think my boss at work is an ISFJ, and she recently started stomping on me too, much to the bewilderment of my coworkers. And with her it's also harmless cheery ENFPisms that she's trying to squeeze out of me.
I'm telling you, I HATE having an ISFJ in a position of 'authority' over me, I really do. The boss isn't so bad, because I can leave a job, but I can't move out for a little while yet. ($$$$$$$) And you can never leave a family. |
http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:orwj2uAwdigJ:www.socion.info/supervision.html+mcnew+relations+of+supervision&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=au&client=firefox-a
Had to link to Google cache as the original page is not there lately. Assuming you both have the same socionics type... ISFj and ENFp have relations of supervision, which is allegedly often painful and difficult and comes with a warning to keep distance if possible. (I have a long time friend I share this relation with, but I think our relationship did go downhill when we lived together.) The thing that struck me is that YOU are the supervisor, D. And the ISFj supervisee, may feel threatened and act out, attempting to throw off your supervision - "In worst-case scenarios, the supervisee may make attempts at total domination of the will of the supervisor, reversing the roles and in effect supervising the supervisor." And if you add this to the possible jealousy issue...
From an MBTI point of view... Your dad is gravitating to your N, admiring it and seeking it, because being his 3rd function it's something he is in the process of developing in himself. (Or it's duality, whatever.) But for the ISFJ it's 4th function - total no go area. You are giving something to him that A) she cannot ever give him and B) she finds rather weird, scary and redundant in itself. She is nuts to try and come between a parent and child, but no wonder she wants to shut this down, she must be feeling terribly vulnerable.
How has your relationship been up to now? Has anything new happened to intensify conflict? Mainly moving house, right? And you are under pressure? What from?
I can't help thinking it's not a coincidence that you have these two ISFJ figures giving you grief. There is something you're being asked to notice and to learn about. |
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zillah
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| Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 2:33 am Post subject: |
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| HT wrote: | Well Zillah, you're giving me the idea that my parents suffer just the same as I do when I am different from them. Yet, it still doesn't change anything. I just got one more piece of knowledge, that's all. But yeah, we all suffer from people with different values from us. It's much like we can actually hurt each other just because we are different.
In a wider scope, people misinterpreting people will cause friction and conflict starts. That's why sometimes the worst war is close at home. It's not about losing your arm or any of your body parts. It's about losing your mind.
So what's the solution? The best is probably family counseling if every family member agrees to have such an consultation. But you know...it's hard to come by. It also cost money. |
You might want to ask around, HT. In Australia there are some govt-funded organisations which provide low cost counselling as a community service.
It really saddens me the amount of pain a lot of parents cause to their kids - especially given that most parents love their kids more than anything in the world and don't hurt them intentionally.
Things seem to have improved a lot with my mum since I got to know better how she ticks - what sort of affirmation matters to her, which buttons not to press. I can't help wonder if it helped to lay down the law a bit too. There was this argument I had with her when I wanted her to consider the way she speaks to me, and I let her hook me so the whole thing went through the roof, and I apologised later for speaking disrespectfully to her, but still, I think the content sunk in 'cause I haven't heard that contemptuous tone since. So maybe there's a necessary balance between knowing the smart places to try harder and when to just say "stop." Without the former, the latter doesn't have any credibility. |
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HT
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| Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 4:29 am Post subject: |
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well still, you know how ESTJ macho men feel about counseling. They WON'T GIVE IN. My dad would think it's a silly joke; that we don't even need that kind of counseling; that all I have to do is listen to him and my mom.
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