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INTJ and his sex drive
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peaches
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Joined: 04 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am an ENFP and my husband is an INTJ. I am troubled by his desire to have sex with himself and his online porn rather than with me. I am attractive so that is not the big issue here. But, its hard to coax him out of his little online sex world. It had gotten pretty bad at one time with chatrooms and phonesex until I put a stop to it when I found out. I am just wondering if its his personality trait of the INTJ or is it just his own issues. If anyone can shed some light on this, I'd be thrilled. We are both in our early 40s. thanks!
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headfonez
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah its because hes an intj
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Guest_peaches
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your reply. But, can you give me some more details? I am such the complete opposite (also told that is ideal for an INTJ) and just don't understand what goes on in his head. I want to understand this so bad without getting so hurt over it. I think the best way is if I know lots of details on why. Can you or anyone else out there help me? He is very private and won't open up in this way so I am hoping an annonymous forum might help me.
thanks!
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invicta
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Joined: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 416

PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

c'mon some of you INTJ guys, (or otherwise MBTIed) help the woman out. that was brave of her to bring this up.

plenty of people associate in online sexual chat, men and women, and of all personality types. i'm not thinking that porn and sex chat in and of itself is directly linked to any one set of characteristics. sex is a part of the human experience, we all came from somewhere, people are hardly an endangered species---we like it.

marriage, on the other hand, is a societal construct. i'm thinking that the marriage aspect of the situation is of more importance to this question than the sex aspect. this is where his personality characteristics will come in to play. specifically, differing levels of desire for communication, intimacy, and the sharing of feelings.

the online sex offers much for an introvert--anonymity, a rich fantasy world, non-verbal communication, the absence of small talk, and most importantly for those with a high degree of FFM Openness (iNtuition), the opportunity to indulge in an abstract scenario.

is the man currently overwhelmed at work or at home? is he having to socialize on a daily basis and in a superficial manner more than he is comfortable with? is he stressed over a consuming project? he may be simply seeking an escape. if that's the case, then trying to get him to talk, share feelings more, or open up is likely to compound his need for solitude. it is probably not about any sort of dissatisfaction with his spouse, but more of a means to have some time and enjoyment to himself. (totally speculative there, i am just putting myself in his place). in other words, it may not be about you at all. i think that, a lot of married people cause a great deal of grief for themselves when they think of marriage as a means to own the sexuality of another person. this causes a lot of pain and grief where it needn't.

so what's up guys? help the woman out with her question.
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dionysusAJ
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Joined: 31 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2005 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not an INTJ, but i'll try...

I agree with Invicta that in a relationship, people often think that the other persons sexual desires are only going to be directed at them. I don't think that is true as ideal as it may be. A male can get multiple women pregnant at one time, it is in our makeup to have wondering eyes. However, we have the conscious decision in what actions to take and when to suppress our urges.

The thing in your situation is he is indulging in these sexual activities from a distance. He isn't going to hotels and hooking up with women or going to bars to seek them out, it is an activity that grants him a short release. Some guys love porn and interactive porn is very exciting to those that do. You can fantasize all you want and others respond. Keep in mind though, that this is a solitary activity free from emotional restraints. These are just words, pictures, or random voices at the end of the line. There are no emotional bonds being made in these moments. That is another difference between some men and women, I don't want to generalize, i'm sure some women are this way as well, but men by large are much more selfish when it comes to sex. And your husband is being selfish by only directing his desires in this cheap manner instead of with you.

I don't know your husband, so I can't say anything about the motivation. I'm also not an INTJ so I can't give any advice from that standpoint. Although, it seems to me that it is a form of escapism. We use escapism all the time, listening to music or going for a drive is escapism. And some men are able to equate sexual encounters as nothing more than going for a drive. Atleast, when they do not know the person well enough to care about them on more than the sexual level and especially if they have a T function. I think i'm making my gender sound pretty horrible, but i'm just trying to be honest.

The problem is that he seems to be escaping to much and letting his external reality fall to the wayside. I think you need to examine if there are any other problems in your relationship or if he is having a hard time elsewhere that is causing him to go overboard into his imagination.
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peaches
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2005 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you to both of you for the great advice! I do need to hear stuff like that to realize that it is a gender thing and not necessarily something "wrong" with him or me. But I still do wonder if the going overboard has much at all to do with the INTJ personality. He does tend to go overboard. When his work is not going well he will play a video game the entire day instead of looking for more work. This leads him to get more and more depressed about himself and then he tends to get more and more into his own fantasy world and rejects me and my advances. He is quite giving when it comes to sex, but many a time he will turn down any satisfaction for him but give into his online porn later on. It hurts me deeply. I dont' know if I can compete with that. If we plan ahead of time, like an appointed day and time, he seems fine. I am trying to understand so I can be okay with it but it still hurts. I am trying to figure out if its like you both seem to say, a gender thing, or does it have much to do with the INTJ mind.
Thanks again and any other advice I will be grateful for.
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invicta
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2005 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wasn't suggesting anything about gender, myself. I try to avoid that because I almost invariably end up in the wrong gender when gender-related behavior is discussed.

Maybe some of the trouble is a bit of subjectivity?

FFM Conscientiousness (MBTI Judging) combined with introversion brings an ability and a preference for sustained attention. I test MBTI INTJ myself, and much of the behavior you are describing sounds very familiar to me. If the man is stressed about something, and trying to focus on something preferable he is not likely to welcome sudden changes in his plans, or demands for his attention and time. If he wants to be alone, just let him. He will probably perceive attempts to coax, cajole, or otherwise persuade him away from his activity as intrusions.

So, yes, the desire for solitude and escape has much to do with his personality. So does his inclination for focused, uninterrupted mental activity.

I think the sex part may be incidental. He might just want his time to himself for a while. (If it wasn't the computer sex it would be something else). This might sound somewhat flip, I am trying to suggest that you don't need to rely on his unfailing attention as your sole means of sexual validation. He's going to want to withdraw from time to time.

Read up on introversion a little--it might help you understand that it probably isn't a rejection when an introvert wants to be alone.
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Guest_Vylence
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When did you get married? Perhaps he is just used to doing it and its hard to break the habit.
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filoraene
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Joined: 11 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2005 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I'm an INTJ male, so maybe I can shed some light. For some reason he enjoys being stimulated by himself more than being stimulated by you. Which may be possible because he's better at it. Or because it's easier. No foreplay, no nothing, just a web browser and a box of Kleenex. INTJs love efficiency , and this is very efficient.

My suggestion would be to have a talk with him about it, and provide reasonable arguments. Explain why it hurts you. Talk about solutions, INTJs love an organised life, and in an organised life there can be no problems. A possible solution would be giving him satisfaction he can't get online. High-quality foreplay and massages come to mind, you can't get that from a sleazy website.

And don't be hurt because of this. I'm quite sure he means no harm. It's not you are unattractive, he probably just wants a simple escape valve for his urges, and does not see anything wrong with it.

Quote:
He is quite giving when it comes to sex, but many a time he will turn down any satisfaction for him


This sounds very familiar BTW. Point out to him you love to have him satisfied as well. Just ask him to please have a good time. His giving nature will kick in and he will do what you ask.

As a general point, in my personal opinion, not all sex in a relation has to be shared. But this is something you should work out for yourself.

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troubled
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Joined: 07 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know, biologically, monogamy is very problematic. Typically, testosterone peaks once every 24 hours; estrogen once every 28 days. Days versus hours -- guys know how difficult this can be, trying to get your honey as turned on as you are. In human history and among animals we can find one male with several females.
That being said, I believe in moderation in everything. Is personality type an excuse for each addiction? What your hubbie has is, undeniably, an addiction. But let's not blow that word out of proportion. After all, I'm addicted to coffee, and that doesn't hurt anyone. Your husband's addiction isn't a plague on society -- the question for you is, honestly, in your heart, does it hurt you? If it hurts you, there's a problem to be solved. Hello? It's OK if it hurts you. Admit it to yourself if it really hurts you.
However, nagging will do nothing to help this situation. Unconditional love and reinforcements of the goodness in your relationship will, over the next few years, show him that the real deal is right there for him in flesh and blood, and the air-brushed, staged images on the screen are just ghosts, just shadows of a good reality. Help the goodness of you two together outgrow the competing distractions and the quick fixes.
If I were addressing him, I, as a male, would try to raise his consciousness a little. There's a reason Aristotle and Ecclesiastes praised moderation and temperance in all things. I love looking at women's bodies in everyday settings and on the magazine stands (shit, Esquire today is beyond Playboy 30 years ago), but I have arrived at an age at which I regulate and evaluate how I do this, because I don't want to turn my inner world into something that is merely demanding and selfish. Especially around women I know in every day life, my soul, by nature, desires; but my soul should not demand things from women they don't want to give, shouldn't seek to fulfill my needs at their expense. If you think that way, you are that way. That being said, obviously, the women in the porn industry, viewed by your husband, are involved in a transaction; they might say: you demand release from me (at a distance, without love or even touch), and I get money. Well, it is legal. It's legal to eat double cheeseburgers 10 times a day too, or to smoke 10 packs of cigarettes. A lot of things are legal; not all of those things are necessarily good.
There are social and biological norms, yes, but we have souls we should strive to keep healthly. If that makes me "religious," so be it. Like I said at the start, monogamy and (I'll add here) its internal pretenses in our souls are definitely biologically problematic (the idea that we can love and think of and adore and admire and look at only one person is pretty hard to imagine in the media age). But that reality doesn't necessitate biological reductionism, nor should it allow personality type as an excuse for all sexual behavior or all addictions. We are more complicated than that, and I don't say these things to suggest that the previous posters were simplistic -- I don't mean that at all. But I've been thinking about beauty, love, sex and lust lately, and this was a good chance to express my thoughts, for whatever they are worth. Fare forward!
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WWG
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm an INTJ (male) and find myself in something of a similar situation as your husband, though I have not (yet) been directly confronted by my wife about my propensity for online sex chat and I've never resorted to phone calls. I'm no INTJ expert, but here are some thoughts.

First, like others have mentioned, it is likely a gender thing. However, what has not yet been mentioned is the addiction side of online porn. An addiction is really any behavior or action that continues at the known expense of normal activities of everyday life (work, relationships, responsibilities, etc.). I feel as though I'm addicted - to some extent - to online porn. I say this because I truly enjoy it, it satisfies me, and when I'm done, I regret it. I regret the little white lies that I tell as a result, and I regret - ultimately - that it might hurt my wife. Yet, I keep returning. I bring this point up only to add the notion of addiction to your perspective. I'm sure that gender, INTJ characteristics, and the ease and accessibility of online porn all interact in these situations.

Second, my wife is a good partner and I enjoy sex with her most the time. Plus, she is very open to trying new things in bed to keep from getting stale or bored. But I am struggling with aspects of physical attraction (though she is not at all ugly) and this is made far worse from looking at porn and the ideal images it presents. I honestly don't know (in my case) if sex chat is a result of being somewhat discontent, or if perhaps my discontent is the result of my online behaviors....probably some combination of both.

I am comforted only by the knowledge that I’m not acting out my fantasies with other women, but instead doing it anonymously and artificially. But this seems to sidestep the real source of the behavior.

Ultimately, this is a complicated matter that I am also experiencing. My purpose in posting this message is to simply offer the perspective of someone who might be similar to your husband...a glimpse into a similar mind perhaps. Sorry if I've only muddied the waters.




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INTJ Operator
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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2005 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote



I'm an INTJ ex-phonesex operator.

I can tell you that your husband does not differ from any other type.

The online sex is an easy way for him to experience bisexual tendencies that all men have.

There is nothing you can do about it. Most phonesex operators - female that is - say that most men want to be dildoed on the ass.

So, unless you provide it to him, he will not give it up.

And even if you provide it to him, a lot of males have a tendency to be disconnected from their partners.

I believe INTJs have that much more pronounced thant a Feeling type for example.

But while a ESFP might be all happy go lucky with a female operator, in the end all that they want is to be abused by those girls. Objectifying them, even though they are extremely friendly and, perhaps, clingy.


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Michael (INTJ)
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Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2005 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is from www.personalitypage.com hopefully it helps...

INTJ Relationships
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INTJs believe in constant growth in relationships, and strive for independence for themselves and their mates. They are constantly embarking on "fix-up" projects to improve the overall quality of their lives and relationships. They take their commitments seriously, but are open to redefining their vows, if they see something which may prove to be an improvement over the existing understanding. INTJs are not likely to be "touchy-feely" and overly affirming with their mates or children, and may at times be somewhat insensitive to their emotional needs. However, INTJs are in general extremely capable and intelligent individuals who strive to always be their best, and be moving in a positive direction. If they apply these basic goals to their personal relationships, they likely to enjoy happy and healthy interaction with their families and friends.

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INTJ Strengths

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Not threatened by conflict or criticism
Usually self-confident
Take their relationships and commitments seriously
Generally extremely intelligent and capable
Able to leave a relationship which should be ended, although they may dwell on it in their minds for awhile afterwards
Interested in "optimizing" their relationships
Good listeners
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INTJ Weaknesses

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Not naturally in tune with others feelings; may be insensitive at times
May tend to respond to conflict with logic and reason, rather than the desired emotional support
Not naturally good at expressing feelings and affections
Tendency to believe that they're always right
Tendency to be unwilling or unable to accept blame
Their constant quest to improve everything may be taxing on relationships
Tend to hold back part of themselves


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INTJs as Lovers

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"To love means to open ourselves to the negative as well as the positive - to grief, sorrow, and disappointment as well as to joy, fulfillment, and an intensity of consciousness we did not know was possible before." -- Rollo May


INTJs live much of their lives inside their own heads. They constantly scan their environment for new ideas and theories which they can turn into plans and structures. Sometimes, what they see and understand intuitively within themselves is more pure and "perfect" than the reality of a close personal relationship. INTJs may have a problem reconciling their reality with their fantasy.

INTJs are not naturally in tune with their own feelings, or with what other people are feeling. They also have a tendency to believe that they are always right. While their self-confidence and esteem is attractive, their lack of sensitivity to others can be a problem if it causes them to inadvertantly hurt their partner's feelings. If this is a problem for an INTJ, they should remember to sometimes let their mate be the one who is right, and to try to be aware of the emotional effect that your words have upon them. In conflict situations, INTJs need to remember to be supportive to their mate's emotional needs, rather than treating the conflict as if it is an interesting idea to analyze.

Sexually, the INTJ enjoys thinking about intimacy, and about ways to perfect it. In positive relationships, their creativity and intensity shine through in this arena. In more negative relationships, they might enjoy thinking about sex more than actually doing it. They're likely to approach intimacy from a theoretical, creative perspective, rather than as an opportunity to express love and affection. Although, the INTJ who has learned the importance of these kinds of expressions to the health of their relationship is likely to be more verbally affectionate.

INTJs are able to leave relationships when they're over, and get on with their lives. They believe that this is the right thing to do. They may have more difficulty accomplishing the task than they like to exhibit to other people.

INTJs are highly intense, intelligent people who bring a lot of depth and insight into most major areas of their life. In terms of relationships, their greatest potential pitfall is the tendency to think about things rather than doing them, and their difficulty reconciling reality with their inner visions. INTJs are likely to be in positive, healthy relationships, because they're likely to leave relationships which aren't working for them (unless other circumstances prohibit that).

Although two well-developed individuals of any type can enjoy a healthy relationship, the INTJ's natural partner is the ENFP, or the ENTP. INTJ's dominant function of Introverted Intuition is best matched with a partner whose personality is dominated by Extraverted Intuition. How did we arrive at this?

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INTJs as Parents

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"You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth...
Let your bending in the archer's hand be for gladness;
For even as He loves the arrow that flies,
so He loves also the bow that is stable." -- Kahlil Gibran

As parents, INTJ's main goal is to raise their children to be intelligent, autonomous and independent. They want their kids to think for themselves and make their own decisions, and so are likely to give them room to grow, and to challenge their decisions and thoughts at key points in their lives.

The INTJ is not naturally likely to be an overly supportive or loving parental figure. Since their own need for expressions of love and affirmation is relatively low, they may have difficulty seeing that need in their children who have Feeling preferences. If they do see this sensitivity, they may not recognize or value the importance of feeding it. In such situations, there will be a distance between the INTJ and the child. This is a problem area for the INTJ, who should consciously remember to be aware of others' emotional needs.

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INTJs as Friends

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INTJs are usually difficult to get to know well, and difficult to get close to. Those who are close to the INTJ will highly value them for their ideas and knowledge. Although INTJs are generally very serious-minded people, they also have been known to enjoy letting loose and having fun, if others pull them into it. They also can be really good at telling jokes, and exhibiting a sarcastic wit with a poker face.

The INTJ is not likely to choose to spend time with people who they feel don't have anything to offer the INTJ. They especially like to spend time with other Intuitive Thinkers, and also usually enjoy the company of Intuitive Feelers. These personality types love to theorize and speculate about ideas, and so can usually relate well to the INTJ, who loves to analyze ideas.

Many INTJs believe that they are always right. In some INTJs, this belief is quite obvious, while in others it is more subtle. Some people may have a difficult time accepting what they see as a "superior attitude" or "snobbery". Not to imply that INTJs are snobbish, just that some people with strong Feeling preferences may perceive them that way. And some individuals simply have no interest in the theoretical pursuits which the INTJ enjoys.

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peaches
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2005 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WOW!
I thought no one was interested in the topic I had given. I got an email saying someone responded and there were a ton of replies in here. Thank you all so much. Each and everyone's words helped and made me think! I gush like the ENFP that I am. Your views were insightful and validated what I was thinking based on my husband's profile. A post asked when we got married and that was 5 years ago. Apparently he's been doing it from before he met me and it is a habit. Our marriage counselor has helped us alot. I think having it brought out into the open with my monitoring his computer with Spectorsoft was so embarrassing, he just stopped. It was so horrifying to him to have me and our counselor know what he was doing. He said getting caught jolted him back into reality and he realized what he was doing was hurting me. Now he seems so much more into me since he's not spilling it elsewhere. But it took the counselor (who deals with sex issues) to tell him that it DOES affect his relations with his wife if he keeps fulfilling his desires on his own. I love everyone's opinions, keep them coming!
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Margreet
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Location: Nairobi, Kenya

PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2005 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So glad to read that something is changing! I believe that marriage is a commitment, whatever your personality type, and that being committed to making your partner happy is very important. His behaviour hurt you (of course!), and I doubt whether it made him happy either. Addictions to sex seem hard to break, but I sincerely hope that he will get entirely free from it!
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