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Rasputin
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 Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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| HatchBack176 wrote: | | God is infinity and we're merely the limit of a finite function. |
So, do you see us as part of that infinity, or as entirely separate from it?
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Rasputin
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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The first link seemed good.
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Kyle
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:50 am Post subject: |
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| Rasputin wrote: | | Kyle wrote: | God being ultimate, is more of a statement for everyone to pay attention to.
I was just clarifying the point that God is the source of every other philosophy.
Not one stands up to limitlessness of God.
In order to truly see/understand anything, it has to be seen from God's infinite perspective.
Humanity doesn't have the full perspective of God.
However, humanity can pursue infinite closeness to God. |
Yes, I agree with that. I would add that even though we can never be perfect, to seek perfection (which only God has) is the ultimate goal.
I'm wondering, when you state that all other philosophies stem from God... |
| Rasputin wrote: | | ...do you see this from the perspective of a particular religious affiliation? |
Kinda...
God created happenings that are now packaged into many religions.
Some religions follow happenings more central to God's ultimate plan.
| Rasputin wrote: | | ...or do you hold the more postmodernist view that different philosphies serve as equal paths to God? |
Yes, equal because many different philosophies/religions can serve as gateways to a finding your true relation to God.
However, God's intended journey for you, is the best path..
| Rasputin wrote: | | ...or you you hold your own unique view about God that you see as more correct than all other philsophies? |
Yes, God makes my viewpoint more correct, inclusive, and complete than all other philosophies.
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Mayflow
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:58 am Post subject: |
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| Rasputin wrote: |
The first link seemed good. |
Yeah, I like it pretty well. I am still exploring the second, but at this
point I wouldn't recommend it. That doesn't mean it won't offer me some
new ideas and insights, though! 
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allisfulloflove
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Joined: 17 Jan 2008
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Location: georgia.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:18 am Post subject: |
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| Rasputin wrote: | | The duck is on a lower level that us. |
what? so not all creatures are created equals??  
never know, they may be on a higher realm than us, which may be their reason for never trying to establish hierarchy in the lands. 
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HatchBack176
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:30 am Post subject: |
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| allisfulloflove wrote: | | Rasputin wrote: | | The duck is on a lower level that us. |
what? so not all creatures are created equals??
never know, they may be on a higher realm than us, which may be their reason for never trying to establish hierarchy in the lands. |
You're joking, right? Ducks fight for resources and mating opportunities. Just like pretty much every single other animal on the planet. |
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allisfulloflove
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Location: georgia.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:10 am Post subject: |
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| HatchBack176 wrote: | | allisfulloflove wrote: | | Rasputin wrote: | | The duck is on a lower level that us. |
what? so not all creatures are created equals??
never know, they may be on a higher realm than us, which may be their reason for never trying to establish hierarchy in the lands. |
You're joking, right? Ducks fight for resources and mating opportunities. Just like pretty much every single other animal on the planet. |
si. si. i was slightly baffled by the comment about ducks on a lower level than us. i just wasnt quite sure how to retaliate. 
thought anything living was an equal?!?
yes, yes. i realize ive gone off in a dif. direction from the rest of the forum.
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HatchBack176
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:18 am Post subject: |
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| You are from Georgia aren't you...haha |
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Rasputin
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:55 am Post subject: |
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Allisfulloflove, I'm glad to hear your perspective, I'd like to engender some lively discussion on this topic. As for all creatures being equal, if it comes down to the question of saving one of your family members or your dog, who would you choose? I'm willing to bet you'd choose the human being, even if it was a stranger. Is it all just genetic hardwiring to preserve the species? Or is there an objective morality that enters into it? If there is such a thing as morality, I'd think it would enter into matter such as this, involving death, the death of a human. Now, I'm willing to bet you'd say it's morally right to save the human. What is your justification for this, if all living beings are equal? What determines value?
I believe human beings have intrinsic value, and the only way I see this is possible is for God to exist, to function as the objective standard to dictate something like this. Otherwise, it wouldn't matter if you kill someone or not. But if you look at nature, there is always a food chain. It's part of nature that things have to die. Now, humans are a part of nature, we do have instincts, we have a physical body, and after all, on some level, this discussion seems to point to all things being interconncted and even part of one essence. Humans also have morality, we have a spirit that raises us above the level of animals. It is our responsibility to serve as the intelligent stewards of this planet, rather then exploiters of it. But that doesn't mean I should sacrifice a human being in order to save a dog. That being said, I like animals. But they're not as important as a fellow human being.
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Rasputin
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:03 am Post subject: |
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Kyle, you can't assume your viewpoint is more correct than ALL other philosophies. While I believe my viewpoint to be more correct than most people's and most other philosphies I have come across, that doesn't exclude the possibility that there is someone out there or some philsophy out there that has it more right than I do. After all, I'm not a sage, I'm not even as spiritually developed as I would like to be. I do, however, put a lot of effort into being correct in my spiritual views. That being the case, if someone had something to teach me that I was wrong about, I would need to know about it. But if I has the pre-existing belief that my views are more correct than ALL other philosphies, then I wouldn't be able to recognize it if another view was more correct than mine. It seems you want to be right more than you want to learn. Of course, I do this same thing sometimes, so don't think I'm preaching at you, like I'm better than you or something.
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allisfulloflove
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Location: georgia.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:49 am Post subject: |
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| Rasputin wrote: | Allisfulloflove, I'm glad to hear your perspective, I'd like to engender some lively discussion on this topic. As for all creatures being equal, if it comes down to the question of saving one of your family members or your dog, who would you choose? I'm willing to bet you'd choose the human being, even if it was a stranger. Is it all just genetic hardwiring to preserve the species? Or is there an objective morality that enters into it? If there is such a thing as morality, I'd think it would enter into matter such as this, involving death, the death of a human. Now, I'm willing to bet you'd say it's morally right to save the human. What is your justification for this, if all living beings are equal? What determines value?
I believe human beings have intrinsic value, and the only way I see this is possible is for God to exist, to function as the objective standard to dictate something like this. Otherwise, it wouldn't matter if you kill someone or not. But if you look at nature, there is always a food chain. It's part of nature that things have to die. Now, humans are a part of nature, we do have instincts, we have a physical body, and after all, on some level, this discussion seems to point to all things being interconncted and even part of one essence. Humans also have morality, we have a spirit that raises us above the level of animals. It is our responsibility to serve as the intelligent stewards of this planet, rather then exploiters of it. But that doesn't mean I should sacrifice a human being in order to save a dog. That being said, I like animals. But they're not as important as a fellow human being. |
To be quite honest, and I fear I'll start an uproar, I think I empathize much more with animals than humans. I think it's because I view most animals as pure. They kill out of survival. Humans kill out of hate. and they acquire hate, ego's, power, etc. I too often think that humans think far too highly of themselves as a whole. (and i dont exclude myself completely.) If I were only capable of saving one or the other, family member or family pet, I probably would save my family member, were there a life and death situation. (though in my household pets are family and referred to as brothers and sisters. no joke. and i would cry my eyes out.) but i realize my point of view differ greatly from most and i have no real need to want to start a religious battle grounds. i'll simply state how i view things and leave it be. though i am happy to be human, to have an intellectual capacity, i at the same time have a positive and negative view on humans as a race. (keep in mind, im mostly ISFP and have a hard time with thoroughly articulating my full thoughts and it makes me a bit bashful.) i have a dislike towards humans due to the need to "own" and conquer land and tame and dominate over other creatures. we've done nothing but harm to mother nature. and are constantly driving animals out of their natural habitats. their homes. image a world with no people. how much more beautiful and lush the land would look, and how free the animals truly would be. most animals are confided to only to areas we allow them to roam. state parks. or the continuously dwindling woods and forest. our roads, houses, schools, malls all take up areas that were once free for all to roam. due to humans, dogs are now completely dependent upon humans for their existence. and according to my anthro teacher, so are mice. (strange little "fact"). i dont doubt gods existence, nor do i fully accept it. at least not necessarily in the same way as most christians. so i dont need an agreement for what i feel true in my heart. i do think that the world would be a much better place were it not for materialism, hierarchy, industrialism and overpopulation and vast medical sciences (yeah, i said it. and you dont have to agree with me on it.) i think if we were more adaptable to living directly off the land (perhaps like more ancient tribes) that we'd all be much happier. no need or wants for wealth, fame, and status. healthier in body, soul and mind.
oh man. i hope i did well staying on topic. 
oh. and NO! i am not a people hater. i just have a radical ideal of how things should be.
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allisfulloflove
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:52 am Post subject: |
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| HatchBack176 wrote: | | You are from Georgia aren't you...haha |
 what does that mean?
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Kyle
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:52 am Post subject: |
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| Rasputin wrote: | | Kyle, you can't assume your viewpoint is more correct than ALL other philosophies. While I believe my viewpoint to be more correct than most people's and most other philosphies I have come across, that doesn't exclude the possibility that there is someone out there or some philsophy out there that has it more right than I do. After all, I'm not a sage, I'm not even as spiritually developed as I would like to be. I do, however, put a lot of effort into being correct in my spiritual views. That being the case, if someone had something to teach me that I was wrong about, I would need to know about it. But if I has the pre-existing belief that my views are more correct than ALL other philosphies, then I wouldn't be able to recognize it if another view was more correct than mine. It seems you want to be right more than you want to learn. Of course, I do this same thing sometimes, so don't think I'm preaching at you, like I'm better than you or something. |
| http://www.kwanumzen.com/primarypoint/v09n2-1992-summer-dssn-truegodtruebuddha.html wrote: | | The purpose of Buddhism is to find primary point. What is the primary point of this universe? The Bible says, "God made everything." But what is the primary point of God? Where does God come from? |
The mind is God to countless universes.
All universes are ultimately created by God.
Some universes don't believe it.
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Last edited by Kyle on Mon Jan 21, 2008 12:27 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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HatchBack176
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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| allisfulloflove wrote: | | I think I empathize much more with animals than humans. I think it's because I view most animals as pure. |
Exactly, you think like a Adolf Hitler jew-killing Nazi. What I just said is too provocatively stated and I don't agree with it, but
| HatchBack176 wrote: | "In a recent study, Sanfey and colleagues (Sanfey, Rilling, Aronson, Nystrom, & Cohen, 2003) found insular activity when patricipants received an unfair monetary offer from what they believed was another human--but not when the offer came from a computer. Why does the same loss sting more if it results from another's intention? It could be because the loss also signals social rejection, 'unfairness', and/or the motivating possibility of reprisal or control of the situation"
It does seem that the more you understand the causal processes of things/people the less blaming you are (as it corresponds to your internal feelings). |
If you look deep enough into your feeling of purity (different for humans and animals) you'll find the seed ("It could be because the loss also signals social rejection, 'unfairness', and/or the motivating possibility of reprisal or control of the situation") that sprouts into full-blown hatred. |
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HatchBack176
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Kyle wrote: | | Right now, God is bringing this exact awareness to our universe! |
lawl, someone just learned about recursion.
Not much of an argument for god though. |
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