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Kennuck
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Location: Ontario, Canada
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 Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 2:59 am Post subject: |
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| Jhyana wrote: | Why have a belief at all?
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Well, a belief (as a principle or idea considered to be true) is a necessary product of judgement. The only way to avoid having belief would be to suspend judgement entirely, i.e. pure perception. This is obviously impossible in the long-term given that even the simplest of actions (eating, drinking, etc.) require judgement and therefore belief. In other words, without belief there would be no basis for action of any kind.
The only conscious state I can think of approximating pure perception would be a trance induced by drugs or hypnosis. On the other hand, an unconscious state of pure perception is something we all experience when we sleep. This is why Carl Jung believed that it is through dreams that most of us gain access to the contents our unconscious, where introverted intuition has a free play.
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Lemon
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:25 pm Post subject: I beg to differ.... |
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There's a difference between belief and knowledge and I'd venture to say that knowledge is necessary, not belief.
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Jhyana
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:32 pm Post subject: Re: I beg to differ.... |
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| Lemon wrote: | | There's a difference between belief and knowledge and I'd venture to say that knowledge is necessary, not belief. |
Belief is involved in knowledge. |
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Lenka
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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Knowledge implies belief.
Belief can be without knowledge.
That kind of belief tends to interfere with knowledge.
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Jhyana
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| Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:13 am Post subject: |
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A balance between the two.
This is why heaven is not up there.
"Then where is it?"
Inside? |
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Jhyana
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RadicalDreamer
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:10 am Post subject: |
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I was taught that too. It gives new meaning to his famous quote: "God does not play dice with the universe." - Albert Einstein
The doublethink and/or disillusionment of Obama's supporters has been entertaining me the last couple of days:
http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/group/SenatorObama-PleaseVoteAgainstFISA
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Mayflow
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| Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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Buddhism also related the Universe as Relative,,,
| Enstein wrote: |
Buddhism has the characteristics of what would be expected in a cosmic religion for the future: It transcends a personal God, avoids dogmas and theology; it covers both the natural and the spiritual, and it is based on a religious sense aspiring from the experience of all things, natural and spiritual, as a meaningful unity.
and:
The religion of the future will be a cosmic religion. It should transcend personal God and avoid dogma and theology. Covering both the natural and the spiritual, it should be based on a religious sense arising from the experience of all things natural and spiritual as a meaningful unity. Buddhism answers this description. If there is any religion that could cope with modern scientific needs it would be Buddhism. |
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Kennuck
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Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 5:06 am Post subject: Re: I beg to differ.... |
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| Lemon wrote: | | There's a difference between belief and knowledge and I'd venture to say that knowledge is necessary, not belief. |
| Jhyana wrote: |
Belief is involved in knowledge. |
| Lenka wrote: |
Knowledge implies belief.
Belief can be without knowledge.
That kind of belief tends to interfere with knowledge. |
If you accept my definition of belief (a principle or idea considered to be true), then knowledge is just an accumulated body of beliefs that have stood the test of time. Beliefs can be based on a variety of premises - including scientific theories, religious dogmas and others.
History shows that all beliefs (including scientific) are subject to various material and non-material factors - such as available empirical evidence, cultural climate, socioeconomic forces, politics, etc. Concepts like "knowledge", "fact" and "truth" as popularly understood can be very slippery indeed ...
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Jhyana
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 5:54 am Post subject: |
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I don't accept your definition.
Theory and belief are two different things. And, yes, they do have things in common. |
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RadicalDreamer
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:20 am Post subject: |
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I think knowledge of something and belief in it are two different things. I have knowledge of the concept of the tooth fairy but I do not believe in the tooth fairy.
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Romana
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:38 am Post subject: |
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| RadicalDreamer wrote: | | I think knowledge of something and belief in it are two different things. I have knowledge of the concept of the tooth fairy but I do not believe in the tooth fairy. |
But do you believe that the tooth fairy of legend leaves money for the lost teeth, or might she leave a toothbrush, or a small toy? Is she even a "she"? You may not believe in the tooth fairy as a living, breathing entity, but you believe you know her basic attributes, as envisioned in western culture.
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Romana
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“The awareness of our own weaknesses allows us to view the weaknesses of others with immense compassion and to appreciate the value of their offerings.” ~ Logospilgrim |
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RadicalDreamer
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:16 am Post subject: |
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| Romana wrote: | | RadicalDreamer wrote: | | I think knowledge of something and belief in it are two different things. I have knowledge of the concept of the tooth fairy but I do not believe in the tooth fairy. |
But do you believe that the tooth fairy of legend leaves money for the lost teeth, or might she leave a toothbrush, or a small toy? Is she even a "she"? You may not believe in the tooth fairy as a living, breathing entity, but you believe you know her basic attributes, as envisioned in western culture. |
Yes, I believe I know a specific version of the legend of the tooth fairy but this knowledge does not make me accept the legend as true. It comes down to acceptance in my mind at the moment.
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Romana
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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| RadicalDreamer wrote: | | Romana wrote: | | RadicalDreamer wrote: | | I think knowledge of something and belief in it are two different things. I have knowledge of the concept of the tooth fairy but I do not believe in the tooth fairy. |
But do you believe that the tooth fairy of legend leaves money for the lost teeth, or might she leave a toothbrush, or a small toy? Is she even a "she"? You may not believe in the tooth fairy as a living, breathing entity, but you believe you know her basic attributes, as envisioned in western culture. |
Yes, I believe I know a specific version of the legend of the tooth fairy but this knowledge does not make me accept the legend as true. It comes down to acceptance in my mind at the moment. |
You believe the tooth fairy is described in a certain way because you are confident in your recall of the legend. That is, you believe in the truth of your information, though you do not believe in the reality of the tooth fairy - because you have no knowledge of it. This may be because she isn't real, or simply because you have not yet experienced her reality. (No, I don't believe in the tooth fairy, either; this is just an illustration.)
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Romana
INTJ
“The awareness of our own weaknesses allows us to view the weaknesses of others with immense compassion and to appreciate the value of their offerings.” ~ Logospilgrim |
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RadicalDreamer
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| Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Romana wrote: | | RadicalDreamer wrote: | | Romana wrote: | | RadicalDreamer wrote: | | I think knowledge of something and belief in it are two different things. I have knowledge of the concept of the tooth fairy but I do not believe in the tooth fairy. |
But do you believe that the tooth fairy of legend leaves money for the lost teeth, or might she leave a toothbrush, or a small toy? Is she even a "she"? You may not believe in the tooth fairy as a living, breathing entity, but you believe you know her basic attributes, as envisioned in western culture. |
Yes, I believe I know a specific version of the legend of the tooth fairy but this knowledge does not make me accept the legend as true. It comes down to acceptance in my mind at the moment. |
You believe the tooth fairy is described in a certain way because you are confident in your recall of the legend. That is, you believe in the truth of your information, though you do not believe in the reality of the tooth fairy - because you have no knowledge of it. This may be because she isn't real, or simply because you have not yet experienced her reality. (No, I don't believe in the tooth fairy, either; this is just an illustration.) |
I see your point. Why I reject the existence of the tooth fairy is because of another set of knowledge I have accepted as belief (faith in my perceptions of the world and in my parents when they told me it was them).
Lets see if I can flesh out what I'm aiming for:
A person believes they have knowledge about different sides of an issue. Then they decide to select one side that they accept as true after consulting a store house of believed knowledge. As a result there are other sides of the issue that they believe they understand but do not accept as true. The rejection of the knowledge maybe based on false beliefs. It is possible overtime this collection of knowledge will be validated by another collection of believed knowledge and the former repudiated. The person may still believe they understand the ideas behind the rejected position but no longer believe in the position itself.
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Function preference: Whatever my muse desires and requires at any given moment |
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