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Lenka
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Joined: 31 Aug 2007
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 Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 4:05 pm Post subject: question |
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Ok, so, I guess I'm turning into a Christian. My question is, do you think/know if there is any stigma or particular issues I should be aware of before I start going to mass and basically have to tell someone. I mean, once I tell my mum I'm going to mass, she'll know, and since I hate secrecy that comes from shame, I will probably let my dad talk with me about it, since he'll dissaprove, and probably I'll have to deal with my little brother asking me about it, and eventually people will become aware of it, and then I don't know what to prepare for in terms of them treating me differently. I'm sure a lot of this fear comes from my own assumptions I've made about Christians and especially converts throughout my life. But yeah, what do you think?
Thanks,
Lenka xx
PS: I'm not like Ohifwinter, am I? I mean, do you think I'm going on a teenage emo binge of trying to be different and special? I can't tell; I worry about me; I've never done anythig like this before, it's all new and unfamiliar. My inner ISTJ is turning in its grave.
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Annabel_Lee
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Joined: 20 Jul 2008
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Location: A kingdom by the sea
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| Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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Gosh guys, I'm really surprised with all this prejudice towards Ohifwinterends. How can you really be certain that Winter's conversion was a "teenage emo binge" of trying to be "special"? Someone openly wishes to discuss their sense of personal spirituality and she gets allegations of teenage experimentation. If out of nothing else, just a general tolerant respect for someone's beliefs would warrant that her example shouldn't be disrespected as such. Unless she's trying to convert you, what's the deal, right?
Lenka, the arguments are always out there both ways. Just make sure you're able to sustain the issues with answers. Not everyone has to agree on the kinds of answers, but they should ideally to cohere with your sense of self and personal logic structures. There are always reasons for the choices we make, and unless we're in parallel positions, my reasoning isn't always going to align with yours. But I don't think that's a reason to deem your beliefs as "emo binges" with attempts for "specialness" or anything of that sort.
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Kyle
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Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 2210
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| Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 5:12 pm Post subject: Re: question |
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| Lenka wrote: | Ok, so, I guess I'm turning into a Christian. My question is, do you think/know if there is any stigma or particular issues I should be aware of before I start going to mass and basically have to tell someone. I mean, once I tell my mum I'm going to mass, she'll know, and since I hate secrecy that comes from shame, I will probably let my dad talk with me about it, since he'll dissaprove, and probably I'll have to deal with my little brother asking me about it, and eventually people will become aware of it, and then I don't know what to prepare for in terms of them treating me differently. I'm sure a lot of this fear comes from my own assumptions I've made about Christians and especially converts throughout my life. But yeah, what do you think?
Thanks,
Lenka xx
PS: I'm not like Ohifwinter, am I? I mean, do you think I'm going on a teenage emo binge of trying to be different and special? I can't tell; I worry about me; I've never done anythig like this before, it's all new and unfamiliar. My inner ISTJ is turning in its grave. |
The most important thing is knowing what you believe in.
"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it." (Matthew 10:34-39 NASB)
Basically, your family has no control over your decisions.
Christians follow God and Jesus Christ.
Even if your family disagrees with your decisions, nobody is greater than God, so who are they to run your life?
Nobody. Not when you are faithfully listening to someone greater than them..
It can make it tough to "Honor your father and mother" when they are not accepting of God's plan for you.
However, in order to truly honor them, sometimes you gotta do it your own way.
If you grow up to be earthly, then you are not doing anything to honor them eternally.
In a nutshell: Break free from earthly rules and follow your passion.
If you are doing what God wants you to do, you aren't necessarily doing what your family wants you to do.
Of course it divides families.
However, it doesn't have to.
It only divides families because some family members refuse to accept God.
Being Christian doesn't necessarily mean being a pasty republican that goes to church all the time. lol
Church is just another institution where people in power push their beliefs onto a community.
However, church is a decent place to verify your beliefs.
It is also a good place to meet new people.
Even if a church is strict, don't assume the people are drones.
They are individuals being subjected to the stimulus of the church.
In the house of God, many have a perceived idea of how they are supposed to behave, and are imprisoned by their fear.
PS: Lenka... It's unfamilliar to everyone.
Never before has the end been so near. It's a different world. 
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Last edited by Kyle on Thu May 28, 2009 5:39 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Kyle
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Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 2210
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| Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Annabel_Lee wrote: | | Gosh guys, I'm really surprised with all this prejudice towards Ohifwinterends. How can you really be certain that Winter's conversion was a "teenage emo binge" of trying to be "special"? Someone openly wishes to discuss their sense of personal spirituality and she gets allegations of teenage experimentation. If out of nothing else, just a general tolerant respect for someone's beliefs would warrant that her example shouldn't be disrespected as such. Unless she's trying to convert you, what's the deal, right? |
Even then...
Conversion comes from learning.
| Annabel_Lee wrote: | | Lenka, the arguments are always out there both ways. Just make sure you're able to sustain the issues with answers. Not everyone has to agree on the kinds of answers, but they should ideally to cohere with your sense of self and personal logic structures. There are always reasons for the choices we make, and unless we're in parallel positions, my reasoning isn't always going to align with yours. But I don't think that's a reason to deem your beliefs as "emo binges" with attempts for "specialness" or anything of that sort. |
Beliefs align at the truth.
~~~
About "emo binge"..
It goes back to confidence...
You are stronger than the label.
It shouldn't have any influence over you, otherwise you are choosing "fear of emo binge" over God.
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New levels of truth come from new levels of understanding.
Follow me on Twitter: https://twitter.com/kylewkeith
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Annabel_Lee
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Joined: 20 Jul 2008
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Location: A kingdom by the sea
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| Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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Truths can be subjective.
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Kyle
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| Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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Truth is truth.
Opinion is opinion.
You can believe your opinions to be the truth, however the real truth decides how true your opinions really are.
Some "truths" are more subjective.
However, once the ultimate truth becomes apparent, other "truths" must align, otherwise they are not the truth.
Dictionary: truth
1. Conformity to fact or actuality. (beliefs align at the truth)
2. A statement proven to be or accepted as true. (possibly true)
3. Sincerity; integrity. (truth having weight)
4. Fidelity to an original or standard. (truth inline with ultimate truth)
5.
.... 1. Reality; actuality.
.... 2. often Truth That which is considered to be the supreme reality and to have the ultimate meaning and value of existence.
~~~
Do you want some examples?
To discover the difference between..
"the thermometer showed 85 degrees" and "it was hot" ..?
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New levels of truth come from new levels of understanding.
Follow me on Twitter: https://twitter.com/kylewkeith
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RadicalDreamer
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Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 4049
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| Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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There is the Armageddon Lobby
http://www.iraqwar.org/ArmageddonUpdates.htm
There is even a clock!
http://raptureready.com/rr-armageddon2.html
Then there are those privy to things at least in the Old Testament translations.
http://www.evilbible.com/
In my opinion no one wants to be told they are a sinner and accept Jesus in their heart. This is when the alarm bells go off for me. There are philosophical arguments that can help people without evangelizing them. They don't even need to know where it comes from unless they ask.
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Romana
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Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 2939
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| Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 10:00 pm Post subject: Re: question |
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| Lenka wrote: | | Ok, so, I guess I'm turning into a Christian. My question is, do you think/know if there is any stigma or particular issues I should be aware of before I start going to mass and basically have to tell someone. I mean, once I tell my mum I'm going to mass, she'll know, and since I hate secrecy that comes from shame, I will probably let my dad talk with me about it, since he'll dissaprove, and probably I'll have to deal with my little brother asking me about it, and eventually people will become aware of it, and then I don't know what to prepare for in terms of them treating me differently. I'm sure a lot of this fear comes from my own assumptions I've made about Christians and especially converts throughout my life. But yeah, what do you think? |
Both you and Ohifwinterends sound like you are exploring your own spirituality, which is a very healthy thing for a young person (or even older folks) to do. I consider it far worse to keep believing what your parents believe just because you were raised that way. As an adult, you must take responsibility for your own spirituality, ask your own questions, develop your own understanding of the divine. Exploring and "trying on" different approaches is fine, as long as it is undertaken with respect and an open mind. You can not make an informed choice unless you are aware of alternatives. Whether this ultimately leads you to validate your childhood beliefs, or to discover a different path, your faith will have a firmer foundation. As Kyle says, "The most important thing is knowing what you believe in." I would add it helps to know why as well.
Your beliefs will likely continue to develop and evolve throughout your whole life. If mass and the particular Christian church you attend speak to you now, enjoy it, learn from it, and see what comes of it. Your path may eventually lead elsewhere, informed by this step on your journey; or this may turn out to be your spiritual home for life. Be open to possibilities, open to seeing the divine wherever it makes its presence known. It, after all, transcends all human attempts at deconstruction, categorization, and definition. I once read the comment that the only true blasphemy is for humans to attempt to place limits on God.
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Romana
INTJ
“The awareness of our own weaknesses allows us to view the weaknesses of others with immense compassion and to appreciate the value of their offerings.” ~ Logospilgrim |
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Annabel_Lee
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Joined: 20 Jul 2008
Posts: 1051
Location: A kingdom by the sea
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| Posted: Fri May 29, 2009 2:30 am Post subject: |
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| Kyle wrote: | Do you want some examples?
To discover the difference between..
"the thermometer showed 85 degrees" and "it was hot" ..? |
Sorry Kyle, you're going to need a little more than dictionary definitions.
My statement has got subjectivity on its side.
PS-On that note, I'd like to draw your attention to the varying definitions of "hot", and the variation in the scale of thermodynamic "degrees". So you know, just sayin'...
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"There's man all over for you, blaming on his boots the faults of his feet" -Samuel Beckett |
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Internal_Asylum
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Joined: 08 Mar 2007
Posts: 437
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| Posted: Fri May 29, 2009 4:58 am Post subject: |
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| Annabel_Lee wrote: | | Kyle wrote: | Do you want some examples?
To discover the difference between..
"the thermometer showed 85 degrees" and "it was hot" ..? |
Sorry Kyle, you're going to need a little more than dictionary definitions.
My statement has got subjectivity on its side.
PS-On that note, I'd like to draw your attention to the varying definitions of "hot", and the variation in the scale of thermodynamic "degrees". So you know, just sayin'... |
Well now, I'm stumped on how the fuck you distinguish anything.
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nonentropic
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Romana
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Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 2939
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| Posted: Fri May 29, 2009 9:02 am Post subject: |
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| Annabel_Lee wrote: | | PS-On that note, I'd like to draw your attention to the varying definitions of "hot", and the variation in the scale of thermodynamic "degrees". So you know, just sayin'... |
The distinction is quantitative (85 degrees, assume scale specified) vs. qualitative (it is hot). Within the quantitative realm are also distinctions of precision (85 +/- 5 degrees F vs. 85.23 +/- 0.01 degrees F).
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Romana
INTJ
“The awareness of our own weaknesses allows us to view the weaknesses of others with immense compassion and to appreciate the value of their offerings.” ~ Logospilgrim |
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Fathergia
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Joined: 11 Feb 2008
Posts: 1322
Location: Texas Ft.Worth
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| Posted: Fri May 29, 2009 9:10 am Post subject: |
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| Kyle wrote: | Truth is truth.
Opinion is opinion.
You can believe your opinions to be the truth, however the real truth decides how true your opinions really are.
Some "truths" are more subjective.
However, once the ultimate truth becomes apparent, other "truths" must align, otherwise they are not the truth.
Dictionary: truth
1. Conformity to fact or actuality. (beliefs align at the truth)
2. A statement proven to be or accepted as true. (possibly true)
3. Sincerity; integrity. (truth having weight)
4. Fidelity to an original or standard. (truth inline with ultimate truth)
5.
.... 1. Reality; actuality.
.... 2. often Truth That which is considered to be the supreme reality and to have the ultimate meaning and value of existence.
~~~
Do you want some examples?
To discover the difference between..
"the thermometer showed 85 degrees" and "it was hot" ..? |
Opinon can often be mistaken for "Truth" in the ancient times the "Truth" was that disease is caused by evil spirits now it is caused by germs.
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C.Beck
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Posts: 2964
Location: Ontario
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| Posted: Fri May 29, 2009 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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Just remember, whatever happens afterwards, we all die alone.
Make sure you can be proud of what you're doing
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Annabel_Lee
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Joined: 20 Jul 2008
Posts: 1051
Location: A kingdom by the sea
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| Posted: Fri May 29, 2009 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Internal_Asylum wrote: | | Well now, I'm stumped on how the fuck you distinguish anything. |
If you would've spent the same amount of time trying to understand my argument that you did passing that smartass comment, your contribution might've even been vaguely useful.
I'm not speaking about an absolutist kind of subjectivity. I'm just saying that it's often context that shapes truths.
| Romana wrote: | | Annabel_Lee wrote: | | PS-On that note, I'd like to draw your attention to the varying definitions of "hot", and the variation in the scale of thermodynamic "degrees". So you know, just sayin'... |
The distinction is quantitative (85 degrees, assume scale specified) vs. qualitative (it is hot). Within the quantitative realm are also distinctions of precision (85 +/- 5 degrees F vs. 85.23 +/- 0.01 degrees F). |
Yeah Romana, I was just talking about the variations in scales between the two divisions (not even to the extent of precision). Degrees F vs. C vs. K? And "heat" has varying definitions in thermodynamics to the extent that you could be talking about heat without a system being qualitatively "hot".
Again, context is all. I'm just pointing out how truth is often not as black-and-white as some paint it to be.
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