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"inversion"...

 
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BGB
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:42 pm    Post subject: "inversion"... Reply with quote

so, I got to thinking about something from my past, and had wondered what people think is more likely:
for the most part, when I was younger (2+ years ago) I generally came out on psychology tests as INTP...
but, then it destabilized, and eventually resettled on ESTJ, and now seems fairly stable there...

so, I am left thinking:
did a few of my functions actually invert (Ti->Te), ...

or, is it more likely that when I was younger, I had just adopted the "persona" of an INTP (possibly by me mostly associating with programmers and other people), and then when getting older, my "actual" personality started re-asserting itself, causing this jump...

or, is it possible that an INTP can "adopt" an ESTJ persona instead?... (for example, as a result of socializing, or exposure to SJ types, or exposure to religion, ... ?).


what does it matter if one has traits typically ascribed to several different types?
...
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C.Beck
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like there's something more than MBTI going on here.
If only we had a system or theory to explain what else could be happening
Oh, look! Cognitive styles!

Quote:
Contributor-complexity flows from an ability to develop in widely differing directions. The Contributor who learns from books and theories of others, for instance, varies greatly in personality from the one who learns more from experience and from life itself. The book-oriented Contributor can become like the Perceiver as principles are acquired from reading, or even like a Teacher as principles are collected into theories; the life-oriented or practical Contributor can be more like the Server, or even the Perceiver (as principles are learned from life). The book- and life-oriented Contributor have traits in common; each, given time and effort, can become like his opposite


http://web.archive.org/web/20030826045445/209.87.142.42/y/c/c2.htm

http://web.archive.org/web/20030810100545/209.87.142.42/y/contrib.htm
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BGB
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes, ok.

I guess it is also worth noting that when I was younger, I was also having a lot more psychological and emotional stability issues (being depressed, occasionally blowing up, issues with obsessive-compulsive traits, ...). but, in more recent years, emotions/... have become notably more stable...

but, alas, I still don't have much of a social life. basically, most of my life I have been mostly isolated from other people (as in, there is no one around to talk to...), and so most of my interaction with people has been online...

or such...
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Lenka
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know, maybe cognitive styles genuinely is better.

Cooper, do you think all those INFPs who claim to be INxP are really mercies shutting off their sentiment, burrying themselves alive in a way? Shocked
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Lenka
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cooper, I feel like a contributor. :/
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C.Beck
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BGB wrote:
yes, ok.

I guess it is also worth noting that when I was younger, I was also having a lot more psychological and emotional stability issues (being depressed, occasionally blowing up, issues with obsessive-compulsive traits, ...). but, in more recent years, emotions/... have become notably more stable...

but, alas, I still don't have much of a social life. basically, most of my life I have been mostly isolated from other people (as in, there is no one around to talk to...), and so most of my interaction with people has been online...

or such...


I would imagine those kinds of things have an impact on your disposition for sure. Stability is good as long as it's not stagnation Wink
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C.Beck
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lenka wrote:
Cooper, I feel like a contributor. :/

hahaha
Lenka wrote:
You know, maybe cognitive styles genuinely is better.

Cooper, do you think all those INFPs who claim to be INxP are really mercies shutting off their sentiment, burrying themselves alive in a way?

MBTI, the written fundamental publications of the theory and cognitive styles aren't in strict opposition! they interlock with a bit of hammering. Think of cognitive styles as a big upgrade with new information and refinements to the old.
I don't think shutting off your emotional world does much to hide your mbti type, oddly enough. I was reading this article a day or two ago about rationality seperate from intelligence, social IQ or emotional intelligence. If someone is trying to shut down their feelings theyre still being very reactionary and it comes off as being emotional anyways.
Rationality can be taught with some trouble. I think in terms of MBTI, T's are generally more rational - as opposed to being intelligent. So that's what i think the INxP posers are all about. They learned rationality and built themselves around those ideas. A good knowledge of odds, statistics, geometrics.
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Isra
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BGB, when I was a teenager, I was constantly stressed, and (in hindsight) I think I acted more like an unhealthy INFP a good portion of the time.

Emotional stress can do all sorts of things to us, but I think that in my case, that came out functionally as Ti switching to Fi, and Se switching to Ne... I can see how stress would also possibly change the attitudes of one's functions.

Of course, stress in certain situations can make us stronger, i.e. cause us to healthily develop functions we wouldn't otherwise. I also think that parental (or other) influence can have something to do with how we act. When I first learned about personality theory, I thought my husband might be an ISFP... he's definitely an INTJ, but his social ISFP shell made sense when I met his definitely ISFP mother.

I'm sure that some people aren't subject to these kinds of influences, and some never have cause to find out, but that's my theoretical take on things.
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BGB
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isra wrote:
BGB, when I was a teenager, I was constantly stressed, and (in hindsight) I think I acted more like an unhealthy INFP a good portion of the time.

Emotional stress can do all sorts of things to us, but I think that in my case, that came out functionally as Ti switching to Fi, and Se switching to Ne... I can see how stress would also possibly change the attitudes of one's functions.

Of course, stress in certain situations can make us stronger, i.e. cause us to healthily develop functions we wouldn't otherwise. I also think that parental (or other) influence can have something to do with how we act. When I first learned about personality theory, I thought my husband might be an ISFP... he's definitely an INTJ, but his social ISFP shell made sense when I met his definitely ISFP mother.

I'm sure that some people aren't subject to these kinds of influences, and some never have cause to find out, but that's my theoretical take on things.


yeah...
actually, I think all my other family members are introverts...

I suspect I might be the only actual extrovert in the group, although it doesn't do me a lot of good (really, I can't socialize if there is no one around to socialize with...).


people who have seen me tend to think I am an introvert though, but the tests seem to show a Te dominance (middle functions are a lot less stable, where second place seems to vary between Si, Ne, and Se...).

so, some tests have shown (for function ordering):
Te Ne Si Fi ...
Te Si Ne Fi ...
Te Se Ni Fi ...
...

'Te Ne' and 'Te Si' seem most common, 'Te Ni' seems not to really show up.

recent typical results are: ESTJ, ENTJ, ISTJ, ESTP, ...
typical past results: INTP, ISTP, INTJ, ...

so:
I/E flipped, but seems mostly stable on E
N/S is not very stable
T/F seems the most solid, as this has never really inverted
P/J similar to I/E, mostly stable on J (generally inverted just before I/E)
...


but, yeah, I think sufficient stress may have been able to invert T and F, and a reduction in stress may have caused them to revert to more natural forms... (or, at least as far as most of the tests are concerned?...).


or such...
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Lenka
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

or Isra, you could be an INFP with well-evolved functions. Hm.
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Isra
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lenka, I seriously doubt it, but I can see why you might say that.

As I grew independent, with less stress and more freedom, I came into my own slowly but surely. It felt... kind of like I had been cluelessly wearing the wrong size shoes for years, and suddenly got a pair that fit. It was hard to get used to, because I was accustomed to dealing with the ill-fitting pair, but I knew that they were the right shoes for me.

Way back when, I really struggled with Ti vs. Fi... I thought something was wrong with me, even that I might be schizophrenic to some extent... it does literally mean split-brained, after all. The majority of my best and most comfortable memories from childhood and teenagedom are somewhat ISTP in nature, the worst and least comfortable are generally more INFP in nature. I did not do INFP well, I do ISTP well (and FiNely Razz) , and I think that's always been true.

Oh, if only I had known something of personality theory then! Even though it wouldn't have changed my exterior life, it would have helped internally quite a bit.
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